MS - No fear of Kimi, retirement timed for Massa's sake.

I truly believe Schumacher acknowledged in Alonso the new generation and so did Ferrari. I suppose Ferrari wanted in on that new generation as soon as possible and began to regard Schumacher as slowely beginning to fade. I think Schumacher still could've had two championships in him provided he had a decent car, but Ferrari obviously aimed for the long term and didn't want to take any chances. That seems a valid point to me.

The notion that Schumacher retired from his legendary career to secure Massa's job seems ludicrous to me.

 

+1

It was only prudent for Ferrari to plan for the team's future, Ferrari is more than just one driver, even Schumacher. If they hadn't signed Kimi when they did, it was likely they would have lost the opportunity to sing a young ace for several seasons.

I don't think they forced Schumacher out, I think LdM hoped to run Schumacher and Kimi as teammates until Schumacher retired, however I don't believe for a second that Schumacher would have allowed a competitive driver into the second seat. He refused to do so his entire career and he retired rather than drive alongside Kimi. I don't think he believed Kimi to be better than him (I sure don't) but I think he was concerned that the team would no longer revolve 100% behind his personal ambitions if he had to share the team with another contender.

It was a prudent move on Ferrari's part but a selfish move on Schumacher's part. The rest is just Schumacher propoganda to save face.

 

+2 Alonso legitimately won the title not once but twice while Shumi was driving. In 06' he won by the skin of his teeth and possibly if MS had stayed in 07' with the car Ferrari had he may have won an eighth, but he was certainly n the downhill slope of his F1 career (granted not very far from the summit).

 

After watching this season, I have realized Hamilton, Kimi and Alonso will never be as great as Micheal. Its not that they don't have talent, its just their work ethics are not even close to Micheal's. Even today, when Micheal attends a race, he is the first one at the garage and the last one gone. Micheal just has incredible drive and determination, always striving to be better each time he raced. I don't see that with any of the current drivers. IMO Kimi wouldn't have come close to Micheal if they were teammates. If Kimi is having a hard time beaten a so called mediocre driver such as Massa. Imagine how he would of been if Micheal was still around.

 

Everyone so far has ignored my question.

I don't think, in terms of shear numbers, anyone will come close to Michael's records, but how much of the setup does Massa contribute? If Kimi comes into a new team (1.5 seasons only so far) and has to basically integrate into an existing system and do the majority of the development over the course of a race weekend, how would he have fared racing alongside Michael, who had been with the team for a decade and was good at car development and setup? It's been documented that Kimi often strives to iron the car out for the next couple of races if there are problems, even on a race weekend. Basically, adressing the issues with the car and trying to find permanent solutions, while Massa just drives the car he is given and works his hardest to make that setup work for the weekend.


I'm just posing the question, how would Kimi do with someone like Schumi developing the car alongside him?

 

I personally think Schumacher would have had Alonso had he been running on Michellins. I remember Bridgestone being crap tyres in 05 and 06. Just look at Alonso now, he is struggling against Piquet. Having a good car has alot to do with winning F1. Schumacher should come out of retirement and show everyone how its done one last time.

 

I think it's a valid question. Last 1.5 seasons Kimi won the WDC and is tied in points having to do it the "hard" way. IMO, If MS was his teammate we would have seen a totally different Kimi and would have seen a great battle between he and MS...with Kimi narrowly beating MS for the title.


Go ahead...flame on. I'm not scared, I just bought a new "flame suit".

 

Haha I'll support you. I have a new flame suit too! Alpinestars GP Tech!

 

Where is this documented ? Massa was a test driver at Ferrari and got a race seat. If he was crap at testing and developing a car would he have been where he is now? Ferrari is on top of its game and has responded to the opposition and improved their weak points (remember the long wheel base issues last year?) If the drivers are crap at developing a car this would not have happened.

Or maybe Ferrari including Schumacher owes everything to Luca Badoer!

 

I had a brain fart. Reported is what I meant.

Just playing devil's advocate. But Massa "tested" for Ferrari when he was dropped by Sauber for a season. No reports have ever said that he does extensive car development, but rather he drives what he is given.

 

What sport are you watching?!? More to the point...what are you smoking?!?

By your reasoning, then Schumacher benefitted from having Bridgestones and a Ferrari at a time when that was the combination to have. If Schumacher lost the title because he didn't have Michelins then how many titles did he win solely because he had Bridgestones?

 

It appears you have not watched many, if any races this season. Piquet hardly has the measure of Alonso and has only recently began to even qualify near Alonso. Piquet has been outright pathetic all year.

 

Many have chosen long ago to include Micheal Schumacher on their 'list of things to hate in order to distract tmelselves from their own shortcomings'.

 

No sense to comment on the points made when you can simply question the contributors motivation, eh?

 

To answer your question, Kimi would have difficult time with Schumacher if they both joined a team at the same time. Schumacher was known for his ability to develop the car. IMO, Kimi has more raw talent then Micheal, but Micheal just works harder than every one else. If you look at Micheal's record, he has only been with two teams. Before he joined them they were considered back marker teams. It wasn't unitl Micheal jumped into car and they started winning races. Kimi had the luxury of going to a top team right away. Mclaren was a winning team before Kimi came over. Kimi was with Mclaren for 5 seasons, you would think he would have won at least one championship. Kimi had all the neccessary tools within Mclaren to win a championship.

 

Minus reliability yes he did. If the McLaren would have been more reliable during his stay he would have had at least 1 championship, imo.

 

I am amazed sometimes at the complete ignorance of F1 history on this site:

He has been with THREE teams: Jordan, Benetton, and Ferrari

Kimi started his career in 2001 with Sauber

From Wikipedia:

Since 2000, McLaren has struggled somewhat to regain its place at the top of Formula One, partly due to a perceived lack of pace and reliability from the Mercedes-Benz engine. In 2001, Mika Häkkinen dropped off the pace in comparison with Coulthard, although neither driver could compete with the now dominant combination of Michael Schumacher and Ferrari. In 2002 Häkkinen took a sabbatical (which turned into retirement), opening the way for promising compatriot Kimi Räikkönen to take his place. McLaren only captured four wins over the following three seasons. 2002 saw just a single win at Monaco for Coulthard while rivals Ferrari won all but two races.

2003 started very promisingly, with wins at the two first grands prix of the year, one each for Coulthard and Räikkönen. However, rival teams soon caught up as McLaren was severely hampered in by the development of the MP4-18, a radical new design which due to reliability problems never raced. This forced the team to use the year-old MP4-17D, a very severe handicap in modern Formula One racing. However, despite this, Räikkönen finished in the points consistently and challenged Michael Schumacher for the championship all the way up to the very last race, eventually losing the title by only two points.

The team began the 2004 Formula One season with the MP4-19, which technical director Adrian Newey described as a "debugged version of the MP4-18." This proved to be anything but the case, and a new car was required by mid-season.

This is the only statement you got right, Schumacher would have destroyed Kimi in 2007 had he not resigned rather than drive alongside the Finn.

 

How many races did Micheal do with Jordan, what a few? Kimi did One season with Sauber and went right to Mclaren. Mclaren at time was a top 3 team. By the way that was suppost to be Heidfeld's seat. But because Ron had such as close relationship with Hakkinen, he felt like Kimi was another Hakkinen. No offense, why are you posting from Wikipedia about Mclaren struggling when Kimi was driving for them. If I am so ignorant about history of F1, then you should correct me by what knowledge you have of F1. I know they struggled, but they were still considered one of the top teams. In comparison Bennetton and Ferrari were considered mediocre before Micheal arrived.

 

History Lesson #2: That seat was NEVER going to be Heidfeld's. He was dropped by Mercedes. Ron Dennis himself said in several interviews at that time that Heidfeld was not under consideration for the seat.

History Lesson #3: Ferrari and Benetton were hardly considered mediocre when Schumacher joined them. They were top teams in the midst of a difficult period...as was McLaren when Kimi joined them. You can't have it both ways in your argument.

History Lesson #4: Sauber WAS a mediocre team when Kimi joined them. So explain to me how Kimi started in f1 with a top team, as you originally claimed.

History Lesson #5: Schumacher was with Jordan for one race and was then poached by Benetton. Be that as it may, that still makes THREE teams that Schumacher drove for, not two.

 

This also gives us a very large window into Schumacher's disregard for anyone other than his own advancement. Jordan was to have Schumacher for the remainder of the season but, when Benetton approached him he wiggled his way out of that contract to go to Benetton and finish up the season. I think he could have done VERY well with that Jordan chassis. He certainly proved at Spa that he could wonders with it. He was quick all weekend long. What ever happened to Gachot?

 

He got sent up for 6 months for that pepper spray incident. I don't recall if he ever got back to F1 after that.

 

I clearly remember Heidfeld was up for the seat. I remember reading a few articles where Heidfeld was dissapointed. Of course Ron Dennis is going to say Heidfeld was not considered for a drive at Mclaren. As for Ferrari and Bennetton, dont remember them winning any drivers or constructors championships until Micheal. Ferrari hadnt won drivers champioship since Shetcker did in 1978 and Bennetton had not won either of them. Mclaren was always at least top 3 team that won multiple championship and races. The last time Mclaren won the championship prior to Kimi was 1999. Even though they struggle, Ferrari always looked at them as the team to beat. You are right about Kimi being with mediocre team such as Sauber. IMO we can argue all day, but Kimi is not and never will be as good as Schumacher, nor will Alonso and Hamilton. Dont see anything extordinary in any of them They are great drivers but not exceptional like Schumacher and Senna. This is just my opinion.

 

+1

Strangely enough, that story never made it to Blick as far as I can tell. I'm sure I'd picked up on it. Blick has a bunch of young reporters plus HRH Roger Benoit. I'm sure he looked at this as a joke as well and never thought it worthwhile printing/commenting.

 

Personally I'm shocked that MS would say this. This is the most condescending comment I have ever read from a racing driver.

Massa must be pissed ...
Pete

 

not unless he uses it as motivation to prove a few people wrong as any positive thinking F1 driver would and he has driven quite well this year, and last ... it's only some people here who don't think he can drive but I do think Kimi is having a calming effect on Felipe as some of Massa's interviews have shown lately