MS - No fear of Kimi, retirement timed for Massa's sake.

Your history lessons leave a lot to the imagination. Yours.

First off who believes anything Dennis says?
Second....You have a way of changing history....Ferrari was complete crap when MS joined them and if he hadnt we would still be waiting for a WDC to come out of Ferrari. From 90 t0 95 Ferrari won 2 races. In 96 the car was no different but MS showed everyone how to drive even a piece of crap and he won 3 races in a car that was no different than the one Ferrari put on the track the previous 6 seasons. The next season he won more races and the car was just starting to come around but still horrible. After that real history began to be writen by the greatest driver ever. One that put in more time then any driver before and after every race. Mclaren was a good team when Kimi joined them they were right behind Ferrari. Ferrari were crap in 2004 simply because the organizers were trying to slow MS anyway they could as he did not agree to scripting races....so in with the tire rule.
Thirdly ..Yes MS was with Jordan for 1 race but I think you know exactly what the poster ment.
Fourth... You are right here Sauber was a mediocre team when Kimi joined them.

 

At least this post was a little more civil. Thank you

 

+1

I love it when fans duke it out on here with arguments. 355 and Senna3xWC do that often and it keeps the chat site alive. But please stay away from name calling. I hate to hand out bans, particularly when a discussion gets interesting, but the participants have to play by the rules.

<stepping off my soap box now>

 

Exactly what I was trying to say. You just put it better than I. Thank you.

 

agreed on all, except #3.

 

By the way found a couple of articles about Heidfeld's link to Mclaren as getting the seat instead of Kimi. Never knew he still had the option with Mclaren till 2004. Dont know if this is a credible source.


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns10917.html

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/f1-information/whos-who/whos-who-h/nick-heidfeld/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Heidfeld

 

Heidfeld did have an option with Mercedes that was not renewed.

The fact that he had an option at the time of Mika's retirement yet was passed over in favor of Kimi is exactly my point. He was NEVER considered by the team for that seat. This has been widely discussed by the F1 press at that time.

 

Translation: Fair-Weather Franco was not a Ferrari fan back then.

Whatever you say, bandwagon-jumper...

 

i think Ted, Heidi was considered for Mika's vacant seat at Mclaren. i remember reading somewhere years ago, that Mika's teh one that advised Ron to grab Kimi's signature, instead of Heidi.

 

Open mouth, insert foot. You make it look so easy. The jokes almost write themselves...

First of all, in 1990 Ferrari very nearly won the WDC with Prost, who won 5 races and Nigel Mansell won an additional GP.

Second of all, while Ferrari did in fact win only 2 races in the period 1991 to 1995, those two race wins happened to come in 1994 and 1995. So while your statement would have been technically correct (had you bothered to do a modicum of research), it is still grossly misleading to characterize Ferrari as a backmarker as those wins came in the two seasons before Schumacher joined the team.

Would you care to guess how many teams in F1 won ANY GPs in the 1991-1995 time frame? Four. Williams, Benetton, McLaren and Ferrari.

In 1994, Ferrari finished 3rd in the WCC with its two drivers 3rd and 5th in the WDC. Only Williams, Benetton and Ferrari won GPs that year, out of 14 teams participating.

In 1995, Ferrari finished 3rd in the WCC with its two drivers 5th and 6th in the WDC. Only Williams, Benetton and Ferrari won GPs that year, out of 13 teams participating.

We can even go back to the 1991-1993 period, if you like, where we can see Ferrari finished 3rd, 4th, and 4th in the WCC in those years. So it is clear to even the most simple of minds that while Ferrari was not at its heyday, it was hardly a "crap" car or a "crap" team. In fact it was a competitive team, if not a title contender.

I can understand how a Fair-Weather fan like you would not know any of this as all this was prior to the bandwagon arriving for you to jump on, but if you are going to grossly mischaracterize my understanding of F1 history, then you better have your own facts straight.

Which would, of course, be a first...

 

You are mistaking speculation by the press for what was happening behind closed doors at the team.

A lot of folks expected Heidfeld to be signed as he was already under contract with Mercedes. This was pure speculation, given the circumstances. However as Ron Dennis himself made clear after the fact, he was interested in Kimi right from the outset.

I would suggest that had McLaren had any interest whatsoever in Heidfeld, they would have taken up their option on him. That they let it expire speaks volumes.

I am reminded of an interview when RD was asked if he considered signing Fisi when he was available at Jordan, Dennis said "If I wanted to sign him, I would have done it 5 years ago". There was no reason for the team to let Heidfeld's option expire unless they had no interest in him and nothing is served by Ron Dennis saying that Heidfeld was not under consideration if in fact he truly was. If anything, had Heidfeld been considered for the role, McLaren would have kept him signed to either hedge their bet if Kimi failed or to replace DC when the time came. He certainly wouldn't come out and say "we have no interest in him" unless they truly did have no interest.

I really like Heidfeld, I think he has shown a great deal of class throughout his career, despite being heavily underrated. However the facts are the facts and he was never considered by the team for the seat. I was rooting for him to have a great year this year but given his degree of underperformance relative to Kubicka, I think Heidfeld is going to be the next Fisi.