MSD ignition in a Dinoplex Case! No Points & Fully Laptop Programable | Page 2 | FerrariChat

MSD ignition in a Dinoplex Case! No Points & Fully Laptop Programable

Discussion in '206/246' started by Nuvolari, Sep 29, 2016.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,370
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    Thank you for the kind comments and I would be inclined to sell the shaft complete with chopper along with the optical pickup bracket and complete shopping list along with a baseline ignition curve, wiring diagram, and basic instructions. I will have to get with Adrian first as he was instrumental on the project and want to ensure that all is OK from an IP standpoint before proceeding.

    As for my R&D time and recovery of investment I know that to be totally impossible but hopefully I can help some Dino owners out. It is with that thinking that I will price anything I offer fairly and in line with the ultra low volumes I need to order from the machinists and sub-contractors I get my custom parts from.

    I will get some quotes and put something together but will need at least into mid November to do this. In the meantime anyone interested can post here or PM me and I'll contact you when I have pricing in order. Just to clarify I'm going to price out the following:

    Kit A - Complete shaft with chopper wheel, optical trigger mounting plate, parts shopping list, full colour wiring diagram, baseline advance curve file to upload to MSD.

    Kit B - Laser cut brackets and heat sinks to fit MSD components into Dinoplex case. I'll include whatever photos I have of my process and finished assembly but would caution that this job would require some fabrication skills and general mechanical creativity to do.

    Again if interested please let me know which kit(s) you may be interested in
     
  2. celestialcoop

    celestialcoop Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 20, 2006
    714
    Full Name:
    Coop
    Thanks to both of you!
    And, put me on the list for both kits.
    Coop
     
  3. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2007
    1,694
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Peter H
    #28 pshoejberg, Nov 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hello all,

    Wintertime is approaching in my part of the world and it has been a bit quiet on FC when it comes to hardware discussions, so I think it is time to some input from my garage. I have always wanted an electronic ignition upgrade for my L-series and when Rob & Adrian came up with the "shaft and optical trigger" kit proposal I decided to go that route.
    I received a spare shaft and a trigger sensor and a few other bits and pieces from Rob a couple of weeks ago and finally found the time today for some workshop activities. Unpacking stuff from Rob is always a pleasure, nice components, well packed and no negative surprises as when I received a wishbone from Eurospares yesterday and it was for the wrong side...!.

    I started looking around in the trunk for a place to install the mds unit and noticed a couple of M5 mm mounting spots on the side of original ignition box. Quickly I rialized that they were perfect for mounting an aluminum bracket for the mds box. With the mds unit installed in this location two criteria’s were obtained; The mds unit was hidden behind the interior ignition panel and the original ignition was still kept in the car. Making the simple bracket and a couple of small wire harnesses took a couple of hours:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    synchro likes this.
  4. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2007
    1,694
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Peter H
    #29 pshoejberg, Nov 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Next up was the distributor. Very easy job I must say. Only violent thing to do was the removal of the rivets for the felt holder, other than that everything that I removed from the distributor can be bolted up again in a few minutes should it be wanted. I choose to feed all three wires from the optical trigger out of the housing and terminate the wires in an automotive waterproof connector. The capacitor is just acting like a dummy to keep the original appearance. Time spent approximately 2 hours.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2007
    1,694
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Peter H
    #30 pshoejberg, Nov 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Lastly uploading of ignition software / advance curve. I transferred the curve from Adrian and verified that all electrical connections were working. No modification at all done to the original wire harness so the original ignition can be re-established very easy if wanted. I installed the converted distributor and fired up the engine in first go. Then made a rough audible adjustment of the ignition in idle speed and enjoyed revving the engine a few times...Tomorrow I will paint the coil black and check the ignition timing with a gun before I continue with the remaining outstanding stuff on the car. I hope Rob decides to promote this ignition kit, it is such a nice DIY modification for everyone that hates to adjust points and grease mechanical advance systems.

    Have a nice evening

    Peter
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. Fred Winterburn

    Fred Winterburn Karting

    Jan 27, 2015
    75
    Stefan, Thanks for the technical update. I just read your post a month later. Why oh why would Marelli design a distributor that way? Keeping the distributor cam lobes fixed to the rotor makes so much sense especially if the distributor also has vacuum advance which would add to any offset in rotor phasing. I don't know of any other distributor that works that way, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised given some other goofy designs out of Marelli. By the way, the early 4 cylinder Fiat Spider Marelli distributor appears to be a copy of a GM distributor but made for a 4 cylinder car. It behaves properly with the distributor cam and rotor being constantly in phase. Fred

     
  7. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,370
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    Peter thank you for the kind words and for taking the time to share your install experiences. I do think that I will pursue offering a conversion option as discussed in this thread and will turn my attention to it later this month. This will always be a hobby venture but hopefully it will benefit some Dino owners and add a little more reliability and driveability to their cars.

    Not to go too off topic but on the subject of aftermarket parts this week Paul and I are in Las Vegas at the SEMA Show unveiling an all new product (and actually all new business for us) to the automotive aftermarket world and we will share it with all of you very soon. Before spilling the beans what it is I will say is that it is an incredibly cool product that everyone will want to have one of more of them :) The reaction has been great and we have earned us 10 different industry awards in the past two days! We actually had to buy a table to display all of the trophies at our booth so as you can imagine we are very happy of our global debut after many months of hard work & preparation. One way or another we always find a way to play among cars :)
     
  8. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2007
    1,694
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Peter H
    #33 pshoejberg, Nov 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Interesting teaser Rob. I am looking forward to hear more about the new product we cannot live without...-:). However, I finished the ignition modification today; adjusted the advance to 13 deg in idle, painted the coil and mounted all the hardware. The engine is starting like a charm running completely steady in idle and revving like a dream...Next project: Fixing leaking head stud bolts....the saga continuous.

    Best regards Peter
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,649
    Southern California
    One idea for making the MSD box "go away" and look period correct is paint it with crinkle paint (silver? black?). I used VHT high temp "Wrinkle Plus" on my Weber IDF air box. If you do, I can walk you through the steps to get great results. I would also look at hiding the wires with black tubing.

    Freeman
     
  10. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2007
    1,694
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Peter H
    Black paint would certainly make the mds box more discrete. Plan A though, is to find an original Dinoplex box and install the mds circuit board in that.

    Regards Peter
     
  11. Jamie H

    Jamie H Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 28, 2009
    2,425
    Puslinch,ON
    Full Name:
    Jamie
    Rob,
    Hugh and I would be interested in a couple of kits.
     
  12. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,370
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    Jamie I'll put you two on the list.
     
  13. Jamie H

    Jamie H Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 28, 2009
    2,425
    Puslinch,ON
    Full Name:
    Jamie
    Thanks. I love the MSD boxes if for no other reason than the multi strike at idle up to 2k rpm really improves the idle and off idle performance. Also reduces low speed emissions.
     
  14. jgreiner

    jgreiner Rookie

    Aug 19, 2013
    5
    Hi Rob,
    I just found this thread. Real nice job, especially keeping the original look.
    I have machine shop capabilities and would like to duplicate your shaft design.
    Is ther any possibility you would share your drawings or CNC files for the shaft. I am willing to compensate you for the use of your design work. Let me know if this is possible.
    -Joe
     
  15. jgreiner

    jgreiner Rookie

    Aug 19, 2013
    5
    Rob,
    If it is still possible to get on the Kit list, I would like one of each.
    Joe
     
  16. Luis A.

    Luis A. Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
    97
    Milwaukee, WI
    Hi Rob,

    Beautifully elegant solution. I'm very late to this thread but is there a chance of getting a shaft or two?

    Best,

    Luis
     
  17. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    managed to get a programmable MSD inside a dinoplex AEC101 case. It needed quite some machining (both the dinoplex as the MSD case) to get it in there. The dinoplex case is one of my reproduction cases so no real problem to mill it out, I would be more carefull/reluctant with an original dinoplex case because the wall thickness that's left is quite thin.
    I did use the original distributor shaft though. I removed the mechanical advance and it was actually quite easy to lock it. The only reason the 3lobe cam is still in place is because I have custom chopper wheels that fit on it so it was most convenient to do it this way.
    Put the whole setup on my distributor testmachine and it is working perfectly so far.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    synchro and pshoejberg like this.
  18. Luis A.

    Luis A. Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
    97
    Milwaukee, WI
    Hi Stefan,

    Well done. I like your solution of locking out the advance mechanism; especially since I received no reply to post above regarding the custom shaft developed by Rob... Can you describe how exactly you locked out the advance weights. I can't quite make it out from the picture. I imagine you will place two optical sensors on one distributor and use the second distributor for spark only...? But you only show one sensor on this one.
     
  19. Luis A.

    Luis A. Karting

    Jul 14, 2010
    97
    Milwaukee, WI
    Oops, never mind my question. I now see that this is a programmable MSD you've stuffed in the Dinoplex case, therefore the locking out of the advance. And if this is for a dual distributor car, then two such setups will be required.
     
    ConT likes this.
  20. Andy Edwards

    Andy Edwards Rookie

    Apr 18, 2012
    2
    Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Aki Eguchi
    I am so late to catch up this project but very very impressed such a great development. One time I was considering to go with 123 ignition but I am quite worried about the heat problme for mid-engine Dino as I am living in Asia.
    Rob, Adrian, I really with to go this route but would there be any chance I can purchse Kit A, please?
    Really appreciate your response on this.
    Best regards.
     
  21. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    @Andy Edwards,
    Let see if they chime in and have a kit, if not i'll might be able to help you.
    I have lately been designing something like they designed and made it in a way that it can be mounted as easy as possible. it is actually a separate unit that can be mounted in between the upper and lower case.
    A plug and play kit that you only have to mount is unfortunately not going to be easy because you will have to machine certain parts of the casing internally to get the circuit board in there in any case.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Paul Root likes this.
  22. Paul Root

    Paul Root Rookie

    Nov 18, 2018
    30
    Full Name:
    Paul Root
    Further information ?



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  23. Paul Root

    Paul Root Rookie

    Nov 18, 2018
    30
    Full Name:
    Paul Root
    Interested. Still building ?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  24. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,294
    CHNDLR
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Nice heat sink on the Thyristors' bank - good Engineering there!
     
  25. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    Yes i can help you out.
    I can build something for you. Just send me a message.
    In the meantime i also made all the parts needed to convert the distributor. So rigid shaft which will work with the optical sensor but also with an MSD inductive sensor. I planned to post something about it here but did not get to it. Will post some pictures soon in this thread.
     

Share This Page