MSW HGTC & FHP Sway Bars (Finally!)

Thank you!


May the Horse be with you

 

No longer available. Shocks are likely fine.

 

Glad to see you are looking into the structural aspects, that was going to be a question of mine re: the larger diameter bar

 

I’m in for a19!

 

John- Easy to make an apples to apples comparison of roll bars, but not when they are made from different steel. Have to torque both of them on a machine and measure deflection at a constant torque. Somebody probably has such a device, but not sure who.

 

Thanks Taz,

The guys in New Jersey thought that the car drove fine.

I guess I will see how it is after the new rollbar is fitted.

I did drive a 575 with FHP last weekend and it was tighter than my car. Having stated this, I did not go over any speedhumps and it was relatively short drive.

 

Thanks John,

That is fascinating. My car is over in NJ getting a stick put in it at the moment, so I guess the ECU flash would not be helpful.

For my 599 on the other hand......???

Any yes when I am in Texas next, I will look you up!

 

My 2002 575 came with standard suspension, the porpoising effect between gear changes was very noticeable. I sourced and fitted the later suspension ECU, steering ECU and FHP springs and it made a huge difference, much tighter around corners too. I couldn’t find the fhp rear sway bar but to be honest i don’t know that i drive fast enough to notice a difference

 

Very exciting update for the community.

Note I also echo caution going much stiffer in the rear. Not only do you essentially lose rear end R/L suspension independence, you also run the risk of sheering off the bar under hard cornering with sticky tires. Both are a setup for a less then optimal outcome.

I do agree these high quality bars likely match the OEM FHP rear end bars but of course that requires directly measuring loads and back-to-back seat time...

 

Thanks Greg!

That is awesome that you worked this out and I am going to try and source the HGTC springs. According to Jason Plato's review on fifth gear these springs were 35% which would have to help.

BTW! The Porpoising in the OEM suspension cars was very ahead of it's time.... How did they know that F1 would follow suit in 2021!!

I have the later Suspension ECU and Steering ECU as my car is late 2004.... So all I need now are the springs and rollbar!

 

Please realize the HGTC is not the be-all holy grail of suspension setups. HGTC suspension was essentially designed as a revamp of the standard suspension to accommodate the new carbon brakes. With good tires and warm the carbon brakes can generate FASTER and GREATER total force which can really upset the balance of the car. (Think transient too much front bias combined with too much R/L bias) Ferrari compensated for this using the stiffer front end vs the OEM setup. This wasn't the first time they did this, as they did a similar hat trick in 88.5 with the 328 (ABS introduction) and 93 with the 512 (ABS introduction). The results varied...the 328 revision was horrible (IMHO) from a driver's POV as the car was overly stiff in the front with a new tendency to understeer with both period-correct and modern tires. The 512TR/occasionally incorrectly called 512M suspension was a far better more neutral rework.

All that said if anything, the FHP is much, much more neutral (and as a result can be more punishing to a novice/immature driver).

Hence if you are targeting something, that is what I would target unless you are running a special brake system.

I may switch to carbons at some-point (tragically most parts are now NLA) but I have really enjoyed the setup I have now as it doesn't overload the car or steering in most normal conditions.

Edit: Found the specs from an old post. Again recall stiffer front = more understeer; stiffer rear = more oversteer:

"HGTC
Front Springs: 35% Stiffer
Rear Springs: 15% Stiffer
19.5 mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar: 73% Stiffer

FHP
Front Springs: 32% Stiffer
Rear Springs: 12.5% Stiffer
21 mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar: 133% Stiffer

______________________________________________________________________________________
below find the spring rates for both the FHP and HGTC springs

HGTC
#208678 400 lbs. fronts
#208679 245 lbs.

FHP
#175886 375 lbs. fronts
#175887 245 lbs.

using a tape measure, both versions measure to be identical in coil thickness and sizing but for the height of the fronts :

HGTC fronts are roughly, 10.25"H x 5 1/16" wide
FHP fronts are roughly, 9.50"H x 5 1/16" wide
____________________________________________________________________

Original Stock Springs FHP HGTC After Market in Car

Front: 320 375 400 445

Rear: 235 245 245 325

 

John,

I initially purchased the 599 to covert to Manual, however after driving it like a manual car it is very charming as you still have to time the gear changes with the throttle and of course it takes the pain out of having a clutch to deal with in traffic.

When the new style dual clutches came out there was a lot of negativity towards the old F1 transmissions.... I was certainly a detractor.

I will be interested to see in 10 years time what everyone's thoughts are.

 

John- Mine is in the shop right now with Trevor and your friend's latest software for Fabio's 6-1 headers, along with my HGTC TCU bought years ago. 135171 has FHP with the last actually fitted pre-52556 shock ECU (201674), so not much help needed there. With the big brakes, she will be pretty much a hot-rod that can stop. Only missing the steering position sensor, which cannot be retrofitted.

CM- You might be able to upgrade the TCU on your 599 to HGTE specs (85 ms vs 100 ms) with a little help from Trevor. Not sure it is possible to do GTO (60 ms) without hardware changes.

 

My 137318 is in several ways your car's sister (also FHP w Fabio headers>H pipe> SS axle Pipe > OEM HGTC). She should likewise be ready by the end of the month with similar ECU update w the proper 32bit TCU....barring yet another surprise snow storm

 

Yup, you even have the steering position sensor.

 

What brake setup are you installing?

 

Been installed for 10 years or so. Mov'It CERs.

Here are numbers I crunched a while ago. They match the factory spring numbers and the anti-roll bar numbers are calculated.

575M HGTC vs FHP Spring Stiffness



HGTC

Front Springs: 35% Stiffer
Rear Springs: 15% Stiffer
19.5 mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar: 73% Stiffer

FHP

Front Springs: 32% Stiffer
Rear Springs: 12.5% Stiffer
21 mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar: 133% Stiffer

 

Thanks Taz,

My car was fitted with the HGTE kit in 2010 by the dealer. So it already has this.

Someone took the wheels off car sometime before I bought the car.

And yes 60 would be nice!


May the Horse be with you

 

Mine is also a late car being 139115.


May the Horse be with you

 

Absolutely, these cars are beasts! I’m sure you guys will produce a great product, and I’m eagerly awaiting it’s arrival