News

430 MT gearbox oil recommendations

Discussion in '360/430' started by tomdeg, Dec 16, 2020.

  1. tomdeg

    tomdeg Karting

    Apr 19, 2011
    70
    Hey All,
    Any recommendations for gear oil on a gated 6 speed transaxle?

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,060
    Silicon Valley
    There’s a long thread on this and quite a debate. The short version is that the factory recommends GL-5 synthetic, but that tends to eat synchros. GL-4, such as Redline MT90, is more synchro friendly, but theoretically affords less protection to the gears.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  4. tomdeg

    tomdeg Karting

    Apr 19, 2011
    70
    Thanks for the reply. I’ll check out the threads.
     
  5. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,296
    MTL works great in the 355 and 512tr etc, gets rid of the cold 2nd gear crunch. MT-90 doesn't.
     
  6. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 1, 2012
    1,813
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Glen
    I've been running the MT-90 for a few years now. It's good but I do still get the cold 2nd gear crunch sometimes till it's warm. Might try the MTL next time. Definitely staying with GL-4.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. Sj_engr

    Sj_engr Karting

    Sep 15, 2020
    235
    Full Name:
    cd
    I thought the general consensus was Valvoline Synthpower 75W-90. Looking at the back it actually has both GL4 and GL5 ratings depending on the parts.
     
    ditpixs likes this.
  9. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 1, 2012
    1,813
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Glen
    Yes but if it says GL-5 then that's what it is. It surpasses GL-4 spec and meets GL-5.
     
  10. ditpixs

    ditpixs Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2019
    54
    Nor Cal - Tracy
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    I concur with this after much research earlier this year. I run Valvoline 75/90 Synthetic (VV975) specifically - note that mine is an F1, but I don't believe that makes a difference. I actually noticed a huge improvement in shifting (quieter/smoother) after putting this in.
     
  11. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,296
    On F1 it doesn’t matter what you use… On the sticks you get the second gear cold grind
     
    armedferret and ditpixs like this.
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,060
    Silicon Valley
    It still matters as it’s the same internals. It’s just that you don’t feel it with the F1 which just muscles the transmission into gear regardless of the effect on the synchros. GL5 provides protection over GL4 through use of additives. Those additives tend to bind so tightly with the synchros that instead of the lubricant coming off metal is sheared off along with it. It could be that the additives in Valvoline bind less tightly.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  14. tomdeg

    tomdeg Karting

    Apr 19, 2011
    70
    I've read the other threads and am thoroughly confused. Everyone has conflicting opinions. What are you using and are you happy with it?
     
  15. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,296
    i think rifledriver is one of the few who can really answer with technical specificity.

    what are you trying to solve for? ie do you want to get rid of the cold second gear shift? if you want to do that you will need MTL. MTL is a little lighter than MT-90. with no relevant expertise i wld be shocked if MTL did any damage to your car. in the saharra desert i cld see MT-90 being better.

    like i said in my post i have experience with MTL in my 355 and 512tr, and it offers a noticeably better shift than the 75w90., and it cures the second gear cold shift.
     
  16. tomdeg

    tomdeg Karting

    Apr 19, 2011
    70
    I'm just looking to do a fluid change. I drive the car rarely and don't abuse it. Reading all the threads makes me feel like I'm either going to destroy syncros or destroy gears.
     
  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,010
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Tom- Yup, those are the choices, GL4 for manual transaxles and GL5 for hypoid gears. And we need both in one container. I use Valvoline Synthetic 75W-90 and have for 13 years with no problems, but there is a specific warning on the container for what to use in synchromesh transmissions. You pick your own poison. My 575's transaxle is likely a bit tougher than one of the V8 transaxles, too, because of the much higher torque.


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 1, 2013
    1,376
    Western Mass
    Full Name:
    Raimondo
    This is a good thread to read.

    360 f1 gearbox oil
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/index.php?threads/360-f1-gearbox-oil.551557/

    Remember all the newcomers, although rifledeiver doesn’t post much in the 360 forum lately his opinion and advice are pearls we should all weigh heavily. I liken it to Bobby fisher giving advice on chess moves.

    I found the LSX oil and had it shipped directly from Italy. A bit pricey but it’s for my one car, and quarts work well for my personal application.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  19. tomdeg

    tomdeg Karting

    Apr 19, 2011
    70
    I’ve been through that thread. And while Rifledriver may be the smartest guy in the room, he doesn’t seem to give any specific answers as to what HE uses. Maybe it’s for legal reasons, or for his professional “secret sauce”. I’m not looking to make this a career of determining which oil to use, I just want to do an oil change. Now, I’m sure it doesn’t matter, but the car is gated and not an F1. It’s just frustrating that it has to be this complicated.
     
    f355spider and duck.co.za like this.
  20. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,296
    id use MTL and see how you like it. if it doesn't make you happy then go back to the 75w90NS.
    in general my irrelevant view is Ferrari systematically recommends too heavy of oils.
     
    f355spider likes this.
  21. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,060
    Silicon Valley
    Correct. He never quite says what he uses, but the strong inference is GL4. That is below factory spec which is probably why he won’t say to use it. I have done two annual fills with Redline GL4 (with limited slip additive) and at the last fill had the oil analyzed by Blackstone. No appreciable steel or iron content. But if your hypoid gears wear out as a result, I’ll probably be in the same boat. Synchros seem happy, as shifts are much smoother than when using GL5. FWIW, I drive spiritedly, but don’t drag race or speed shift.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
    f355spider likes this.
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,010
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Tom- There is no difference between a 3 pedal Ferrari transaxle and an F1 transaxle. Guts are the same and only what makes the clutch engage and gears shift is different. You can easily swap the two, as is done quite often.
     
  23. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,174
    USA
    Full Name:
    Hugh G. Rection
    I think you are right about Brian Crall...I recall private messaging him, probably over a decade ago during a thread about which transaxle fluid to use, and he said I should probably use Redline 75-90NS with no slip additive unless needed and if the car shifted poorly, his solution was MTL, which always gave favorable results with bad shifting transaxles. Dave Helms told me he preferred not to use MTL and stick with Redline 75-90NS. Guess what I ended up using? ;)
     
    Need4Spd and Flea7 like this.
  24. Flea7

    Flea7 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 25, 2010
    1,195
    Seattle WA
    Full Name:
    SKIM

    I have to agree with this. There is a thread where Brian does discuss it but doesn't flat out say what to use. You can read between the lines of his responses and I would say it is a good assumption that RL 75w-90NS is his preference. That is what I use with no problems.
     
    f355spider likes this.
  25. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,060
    Silicon Valley
    75W-90NS is GL5. It works but is not great for synchros. One line from Brian’s posts sticks out in my mind. Something about having a box full of worn out synchros from people following the factory recommendations.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  26. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,296
    75w-90NS is what the factory calls for no? i think MTL is the right answer. If there were no issues from owners using the factory spec would we be having this conversation over and over?
     
    Need4Spd likes this.
  27. timwu12

    timwu12 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2014
    673
    Houston, TX
    That same line is what stood out to me as well and made me switch to MT-90. My gated car seems to shift smoother with it in than the 75W-90NS GL5 that was in there before it.
    This also included track driving.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    Need4Spd likes this.
  28. Flea7

    Flea7 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 25, 2010
    1,195
    Seattle WA
    Full Name:
    SKIM
    ...was it box full of gears or box full of synchros? ...we should find that thread.
     

Share This Page