430 - MT gearbox oil recommendations | Page 3 | FerrariChat

430 MT gearbox oil recommendations

Discussion in '360/430' started by tomdeg, Dec 16, 2020.

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  1. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    I do not believe I have ever advocated anyone use GL4 in a transaxle with hypoid gears. I know I don't. It would be legally indefensible if I was sued for a transaxle issue. I can charge people and make money replacing bad syncros using what Ferrari tells us to use. That is 100% defenseable. It is all in all a better business plan.

    There is no more perfect a choice then as now no matter how many times the same question is asked.
     
    f355spider likes this.
  2. Flea7

    Flea7 Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2010
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    I think most of us understand your position Brian.... and the liabilities that are at risk for you.
    We're just trying to decipher some of your messages to make the correct decision personally. You're opinions are very well respected !
     
    f355spider and Need4Spd like this.
  3. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    So asked differently wld you use gl4 in your own 360/430 where you have no liability risk?
     
  4. Flea7

    Flea7 Formula 3
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    I'm reading this thread again and I don't know how I got using GL5 was what brian was advocating. I even post the opposite of what i'm saying here in post #23. :confused: I got confused and went the opposite. ....I'm planning on changing out the oil to MT90 .....even though it's not recommended for our hypoid gears it seems like that is the lesser of the 2 evils. I have to agree with what Need4speed said below.

    "GL5 is the greater of the two risks, since as pointed out, GL4 was used for quite some time in older cars and it's not like we're seeing a bunch of transmissions with their gears failing. Brian's box full of worn out synchros seems rather compelling"
     
  5. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
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  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    And that is still my policy.
     
  7. tomdeg

    tomdeg Karting

    Apr 19, 2011
    70
    So, at the end of the day, (and lots of conflicting opinions) what's the general consensus? MTL or MT-90?
     
  8. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
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    I’m no expert. Seems MTL and MT-90 are similar except in viscosity. MTL is 70w-80 and MY-90 is 75w-90. Both GL-4’s.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  9. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
    4,209
    I reread this thread and participated in some of the other threads several years ago. I private messaged Brian at the time and came away with his thoughts and made notes. Looking back at my notes regarding my CS, I wrote down MT-90.

    I also wrote down MTL for the Dino & 328 and MT-90 for the 355.

    I also appreciate Need4speeds effort in oil analysis.
     
    f355spider likes this.
  10. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    355 is def an mtl car. Been using it for 20 yrs. mt90 will not get rid of 2nd gear cold shift. Maybe i need to say it 10 more times.
     
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  11. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
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    Thanks. Mine’s F1 so I wouldn’t know about cold 2nd issues.
     
  12. Paul Kane

    Paul Kane Karting

    May 27, 2020
    228
    Rickmansworth UK
    Full Name:
    Paul Kane
    I have a 2005 430 manual spider, I had a nightmare getting into 1st and 2nd gear, I read all the posts on FC regarding this issue.
    I had replaced the plastic bushing under the gear stick to the Hill aluminium one, cleaned and re greased up all the linkages.
    Used Redline MT90 oil and bingo!
    All gear changes from cold are perfect, no crunching or difficulty.
    When all up to temperature the gear changes feel slightly stiffer but negligible.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    Need4Spd likes this.
  13. tomdeg

    tomdeg Karting

    Apr 19, 2011
    70
    OK, let's beat this dead horse... what's the consensus on using MT-90 with the Limited Slip Friction Modifier?
     
  14. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
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    Ok, so I lied. I'm still confused. However, I have 3 more months while the car is sleeping
     
  15. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    Why are you killing yourself over this? What are you trying to solve for exactly? If its second gear crunch try mtl and reassess after a few months (have the oil tested)
     
  16. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Trying to figure out what will do the least damage (as discussed) and provide adequate drive ability at the same time since I live in a cold area. I was hoping the experiences shared in the posts would answer that concern but it only provided variances.
     
  17. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Sep 1, 2013
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    Raimondo
    First off I’m no pro.

    So my simple minded algorithm:

    1- you must Determine if it’s gl4 or gl5 you want to use. Clearly there is no consensus. Some experienced “non-pros” are suggesting MTL and various other GL-4’s. Rifeldriver unequivocally stating gl5.

    2- pick the brand. Seems if you choose GL4 - MTL is most recommended by owners.
    For GL5 there seems to be various options.


    Digression:

    (I’m not knocking any other decisions or posts so don’t take the following negatively)

    As stated I put more weight in the opinion of a pro because it’s less anecdotal. “in my experience” equates to a study group of n=1. (No disrespect to those who are advocating gl4). However, one may argue the collective information from these owners over years does carry more weight. In GL4’s defense ask this - there are apparently lots of toasted synchros suspected from GL-5. Are there any toasted or damaged hypoid gears from GL4? Are there enough folks using GL4 to answer this not just the skewed population of a few posting here.

    Let’s imagine If the failure rate is 0.1%/ year. It will take the average person 10 years to reach just 1% chance of a problem.

    If a pro has 50 customers with 360/430’s. In one year they will have 5x the experience the one customer had in full 10 years of ownership. A lot more statistical weight.

    So a reasonable question is does ttforced truly echo what Brian prefers and won’t state or execute because of professional liability. I have no idea, and y’all can speculate. I’m rolling the dice with a high quality GL5.


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  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    If an engine calls for 5W 30 but an owner uses 10 W 60, do you think that engine fails?
     
  19. 360+Volt=Prius

    360+Volt=Prius Formula 3
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    Prob not unless you add some maple syrup! However there are some real smart folks around here that can answer your question with some proper scientific insight about lubrication and fluid dynamics.

    I was very specific in my post, I am not after a confrontation about a topic I am clearly not qualified to debate.

    My question to you is if 100 cars use the 10w-60 and two need a motor after a couple of years might that be statistically significant?


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  20. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    Life is way too short to split hairs like this if you ask me… If you want the second gear cold crunch to go away, there’s a solution… I can’t help if Ferrari doesn’t recommend it… This is the same company that sells cars with compromised exhaust manifold, PTu That takes ****s, dct issues, and paint that bubbles on $300,000 v12 cars, Recommended belt changes every three years...if people want to take Ferrari as Bible by no means well I try to stop them
     
  21. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    so what did you end up using?
     
  22. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
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    Does anyone know if you use MTL or MT90 do u have to add friction modifier. And if you do have to add it, would you be defeating the purpose.
     
  23. JaguarDriver

    JaguarDriver Karting
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    Sep 27, 2011
    174
    Atlanta, GA
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    Dick Maury
    Since Redline Products are quoted, why not use the oil that they recommend? I have it in my car and works great, no second gear problems.
    This from their Website:
    75W90NS GL-5 Gear Oil
    • Designed for transmissions and transaxles - helps to slow synchros for easier shifting across a broad temperature range
    • Popular in Ferrari, Porsche and Subaru transaxles
    • Muscle Car applications like Ford Top Loader, Muncie transmissions, Borg-Warner T-10 and Super T-10
    • Contains extreme pressure additives like our 75W90 GL-5 oil, but lacks friction modifiers to balance slipperiness
    • Improved copper corrosion protection to prolong synchro life
    • Helps with lock-up on weak limited-slip differentials-compatible with Red Line Limited Slip Friction Modifier for tuning slippage
    • Also used with clutch-type LSDs in racing for maximum lock up
    • Recommended for API GL-5, GL-6, MT-1, MIL-L-2105E and SAE J2360
    • Non corrosive formula, safe for use with all synchro materials
     
    Paul Kane likes this.
  24. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
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    Mar 1, 2012
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    Glen
    I'm running MT90 with no friction modifier, no problems. Adding friction modifier does not make it GL-5. Gl-5 has about twice the sulphur/phosphorus as GL-4. Friction modifier is some super slippery stuff to stop chatter in LSD's.
     
  25. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula 3
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    Oct 28, 2015
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    MD
    That's what I put in 360 along with the new LSD plates and clutches. I have not driven it yet.

    The thing is, the 75W90NS may not be the same as it was 2 or 10 years ago. So going through older threads, comments from many years ago may not be as relevant to today's product.

    Redline is popular in the BMW community and it's what I have put in all my cars and I feel it tends to be as good or better than what it replaced.
     

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