Much more oil data (a lot more) | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Much more oil data (a lot more)

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by AEHaas, Apr 12, 2004.

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  1. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,742
    I can only claim 5,000 track miles and only 20,000 miles are under my name. And even in light of the previous position, I am going to run a xW-30 weight oil some time this summer. I am just not recommending it to others until this experiment has been run. On the other hand 5,000 miles at the track with missed shifts, occasional intentional over redline operation, and the summer heat of Texas has not slowed this engine down in the least.

    Thinner does equal more flow and more ability to carry heat away from a loaded bearing,... The remaining question is does the thinner oil have enough viscisity to enable the hydrodynamic wedge to separate the main and rod bearings from the crank and con rods. I suspect it does. The temperature test will tell for sure. I lost 15dF when switching from 15W50 to 10W40, If I stay the same or loose more temperature with xW-30 then It will have passed the test. If ti stays the same we may have a quandry.

    Mitch
     
  2. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,742
    Here are some new and interesting references with respect to oil viscosity and wear:

    First a ?marine? application that looks at cylinder liner wear.

    http://www.fammllc.com/PDF%20Files/LUBE_Bulletin12.pdf

    I quote:
    "This test proves that oil viscosity is not a primary driver for wear control"

    "From the available evidence is can be concluded that the total ring and liner wear is mainly corrosive wear, plus some abrasive wear and negligable adhesive wear. Considering all factors that contribute to wear, viscosity, and consequentially the difference in oil film strength can be disregarded".

    Note: continuous high output power application at low RPMs.

    Second an aircraft note that multiweight oils cause scuffing on aircraft engines (e.g. engine designed in the dark ages of metalurgy). Don't really know how to take this one.

    http://www.eaa49.av.org/techart/str_oil.htm

    Third a simple test to determine if you should change your oil, and maybe change it more than once:

    http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=348&relatedbookgroup=OilAnalysis

    Forth a note that clean oil improves fuel efficiency:

    http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=401&relatedbookgroup=PowerGen

    Cheers!
     
  3. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,465
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    Here again everything but viscosity is important. Maximize flow (cools engine, maximizes cleaning, minimizes build ups, neutralizes contaminants - to name a few), change oil frequently (removes built up water, contaminants, replenishes additives, removes corrosives, removes waxes and other contaminants that thicken oil - to name a few).

    Here is more from your source Mitch:

    It had been more than 5,000 miles since my last oil change and I was pretty sure my synthetic motor oil would survive the extended drain. Still, to ease my anxiety, I decided to do a little test on the oil - the blotter spot test using a business card from my wallet.
    Within five minutes of spotting the card with oil from the dipstick, I knew something was horribly wrong. The heavy black soot in the oil was immobile, creating a sticky center on the card. This was not what I wanted to see and I knew it was symptomatic of an oil that had passed its prime.

    Cause and Effect
    Why did this happen? The main reason was my driving habits. I’m frequently away on business so my car sits in the garage most of the time. When I do drive, it’s usually short distances (typically 3 to 4 minutes to the office). This causes moisture to build up in the crankcase (perhaps as much as 20 percent), which in turn, causes additive distress, loss of dispersancy and sludge. The condition was compounded by the fact that it was January (cold driving conditions hold moisture longer in the oil).

    The Solution
    A double oil and filter change was prescribed. I knew from the blotter test results that the oil in my engine had thrown sludge, and soot had dumped (lost dispersancy). An oil change brings in a fresh supply of detergents and dispersants. With the single oil change, these additives would have lifted up much of the sludge and carried them to the filter. Consequently, the filter would have plugged within minutes, sending the oil into bypass and unfortunately, automobiles don’t have bypass indicators. By performing two oil changes, most of the sludge and deposits are discarded with the first oil and filter, enabling the second oil and filter to have normal service life. This was confirmed by another blotter spot test after the second oil change.

    Aunt Minnie Drivers Give Synthetics a Licking
    Even the very best motor oils cannot safeguard against sludge when free water is present. Within several minutes after starting an engine, the oil typically reaches the thermostat setting. This heat can drive off the moisture, even in cold winter conditions. However, it can sometimes take 15 to 20 minutes of continuous driving before the condensed moisture has dissipated. When water accumulates in sooty used oil and remains in the engine for an extended time, the damage to the oil is irreversible. This is why short-trip “Aunt Minnie” drivers need to change their car’s oil more frequently.

    How frequently? If you are a short-trip driver like me, consider performing a simple blotter spot test before a scheduled oil change in order to regulate the optimum oil change interval to your driving conditions and climate. ...






    When looking to buy a used car look for an oil change every spring and at least one other time a year. If the oil was not changed twice a year at a minimum it is a very bad sign. Ask where the car was driven. If they say that it was only driven 5 miles to restaurants or to work, this is really bad. If they only used 20W-50 or 20W-60 oil in that car, this is bad as it has thickened to glue. Mileage is a good thing if the oil was changed appropriately, often.

    aehaas
     
  4. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,465
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    One more thing, there are high revving motorcycle 2 stroke engines and many types of lawn maintenance equipment that are lubricated with gasoline and a touch of thin oil. The main problem there is build up of varnish causing wear and particulate wear.

    People who use "high flow", non OEM air filters are increasing the particulate wear, adding to the problem.

    Mitch, I will be going to the 20 wt oil in the Lambo at the next opportunity.

    aehaas
     
  5. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,465
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    I am going to try something here to better post data:
     
  6. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,465
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    Let me try this again:



    I have tried but cannot directly place a data sheet from Exel onto a page to view. Can somebody tell me how to do this.

    aehaas
     

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