Have been reading here about the likely transition to a turbocharged V12 replacing the NA F12 someday, and it got me thinking. To me the F12 is very much the spiritual successor to the Daytona, one of the all-time great Ferrari GT cars, a sort of "end-of-an-era" type car. Perhaps the NA F12 may someday be looked back upon as the same? We often attribute value of a car to the limited number made, such as the fewer Daytonas vs the production numbers of the F12. While that numerator is certainly larger with the F12, so is the denominator (the number of potential purchasers), and that denominator likely will grow over the decades IMO. When the Daytona was produced the main markets were where there were available dealerships, and service...Europe, the US, and few spots here and there throughout the world where truly wealthy enthusiasts lived. Now there is a more affluent global economy and dealer network to support that consumption; there is of course still Europe and the US, but also Russia, Mideast, China, other East Asia, Japan, Australia, Canada, and South America markets (among others). Just wondering what the future may hold for collectors of the F12 even though that isn't my reason for owning one...I drive it all the time, as it was meant to be.
All of this is a short term play, governments will be gagging from a Eco, control and revenue perspective to have us driverless in 10 years. You reckon they will let you zip in and out of the speed restricted driverless cars like a maniac for long......... Forget investment value and enjoy while it lasts.
OP interesting points, but I will tell you that I am not so sure there is a generation of car lovers coming right behind to pay premiums for these "collector" items. I plan on adding an F12 to the FF but I still see a future where at some point these traditional V12 powered petrol cars will be viewed as diesel tractor trailers - we all have seen the concepts of driverless, flying, etc.
I ask myself this same question and have not come to a conclusion yet. Time will tell but it is my intention to add a V12 to my collection before they go turbo. Ideally I'd like to secure the last model (F12M?) but have been unable to gather any detailed intelligence on it with regards to the changes vs the current F12. If they are minor, I'd probably just go and order a 2016 F12 now for summer delivery.
I think the ferrari formula is simple. If the car looks good it stays desirable. No put down on the mondial (I owned one) but it's cheap because it is ugly. The Dino isn't even a Ferrari and has an under powered V6 with some of those powerplants in fiats but the body lines make it a quarter million dollar car plus. The F12 can stand on its own technically and the lines are fantastic. I think it is a keeper. The F12 might be to the Daytona as the 550 is to the 275gtb. Lineage is nice but the car has to stand on its own 2 feet and the F12 can certainly haul the mail. Having had 4 V8 ferraris I don't see why anyone would want a modern V8 Ferrari if they gave the F12 a spin. Some might squawk about the track and how great a 458 Challenge car night be and my answer would just be 599GTO.
I really don't know about the future for self driven cars. I have no way to prove this one way or another but I think enough people enjoy driving that there will still be places to drive these cars and there will still be those who will want to drive them. I think the future is a lot more bleak for people who want a self driven Honda Accord vs a Ferrari. I see the 599 as being more Daytona and the F12 as being more 275 but thats just down to the styling cues we gravitate towards. I think the 599 was their attempt to go really modern and it was pretty successful. I think the F12 takes the lessons learned from the GTB and HGTE and really improves on them. Its a very compelling package.
Introduction of TdF has reduced my desire for an F12 significantly. Unfortunately, I could not get on the list for a TdF. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Been told that the FF will be replaced and I know it will still I bought a 2015 FF and I am enjoying it to the max and I just added F12 to my collection to be delivered in March ,,,, I just wamt to enjoy my beauties to the max without caring about depreciation or replacement ... Both are amazing cars and must be enjoyed to the max
if you take away the advancement of the TDF IMHO the F12 looks better as I am not a lover of the sharks fins at the back. or the front spoiler area. But no doubt it will be a complete BEAST
The OP got me thinking a little, I'm not to happy with the thoughts that popped into my head. I think when the NA 12's are gone, that won't be in 20 years. Has to be sooner, there will be a few disappointed people(like most of us here). However I think we will be the minority. Seems these days what ever new cars manufactors pump out, the buyers are there no matter what. The status of a the newest car out weighs the idea that it might not be he best. I'm not living in the past, but the plastic junk that some car manufactors are building just sucks and sales are better than ever.
Driverless will work best without any self driven cars on the streets. That could led to track only use for self driven. Everyone would use slicks on track. F12 on slicks would not be the worst choice for an amateur trackday driver
fatbillybob is spot on. The F12 is quite beautiful and will stay desirable. I remember when I first saw mine. A showroom full of perfect Ferraris from many generations but the one that blinded me was that amazing Rosso Maranello F12. It is true that in car shows it just demands attention sitting there. What a car. What a body. What an engine. What great NA V12 melody. And to drive is to be full of joy and even fear of the extreme performance while being smothered with leather and carbon fiber in a timeless interior. Ferrari collectors are fickle wanting extreme rarity but the larger automotive enthusiast world knows, respects and lusts for the F12. It stands on its own. There will always be car guys (and girls) until it is genetically bred out of the population which I suppose will take many more generations.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that the F12 will be a good long term investment. There hasn't been a single 2 seater V12 Ferrari in history that has failed to deliver. The only question is how long will it take to show in pricing. 20 years seems to be the average lead time for that.
My feelings exactly! Beautifully stated. Part of my point was that the F12 may have the same rarity to future enthusiasts as the Daytona does to us today. The World keeps getting more populated, and there will be limited F12s 20+ years from now. What a machine!
a couple of days ago i had the opportunity to follow an F12 for several miles (a rosso corsa car going to ferrari of PB )this was the first time i had such an opportunity and a I realized what beautiful car it is the lines reflect the sunshine fantastically the black contrast looked just right I could not find a bad angle on the car (of course it is the same color as mine but I never follow mine) I realized then that this was a car that really strokes the emotions .. if you combine that with the excellent fit , finish and design of the interior along with the sound oh the sound what a car.... SO the point is any car that stirs the emotions has the potential to have collector value I know my 20something nephews just love the car and i have many cars and they have driven all of them they both like the F12 first and maybe the scud second..... SO it is the younger guys that will determine the value in 20 years... AND DID I MENTION THE SOUND.. It is a car I plan to keep.....although I should would like a TDF but that is another story...
Not sure I understand that. The F12 looks better and, while the TdF looks to have greater grip at speed and should beat an F12 around the track, F12 TdF performance from all indications is likely only an incremental improvement over the F12 in almost any conceivable driving situation (nothing against the TdF, but because the F12 was already so damn good). The 488 GTB is as fast as the F12 0 to 100 km/h -- did that reduce your desire for the F12? At the end of the day, the price level being charged for the F12 TdF, at least to me, creates a halo around the F12 that makes it even more desirable at its price point. In any case, if you really are a "latest and greatest" type, you can have your TdF. All you will need is patience, vigilance and a great, great deal of money. Whether that's better than being out now driving your own F12 is up to you.
As an older person who has been fortunate to have owned Ferraris for more than 35 years my choice is the F12. I drove mine this morning on a sunny 47 degree day before writing this and in my opinion the F12 is Ferrari's finest car. Yes, I would like a tdf but if I am unable to acquire one, I will finish my life with an F12. All good news! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I respect F12 as a brilliant Ferrari. I was amazed the moment I test drove one for a day. I am sorry but TdF has perfected what was already a brilliant machine with its newest features. I would love to be able to own one if only I am allowed to purchase one by Ferrari. That's all. Hopefully, the F12M would be an improvement based not just on F12 chassis but on TdF chassis. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Next week in Vegas there's the annual CES (Consumer Electronics Show). Auto makers have begun to take CES very seriously. What's driving this (excuse the pun) isn't consumer interest. Or the auto makers for that matter. What's driving it IMO are a few massively cash rich tech firms who are extremely keen to not only own your living room but every part of your life. Including your car time. And since they are paranoid about one of their rivals getting there first, everything is up for grabs. Alphabet goes one step further IMO because it sincerely wants to improve the world, and has billions of dollars to make it happen, as they see it. I believe one of the most irrational of human behaviours bugging them is the time we spend driving cars. That I believe led to their push for driverless cars. The view - and it's hard to disagree on a general basis - is we waste countless hours of our lives because humans never optimise the space around them but computers can, so a driverless car will in theory allow countless more cars to be made available but with less average journey times. Clever economists can then predict the huge theoretical gains to global GDP because productivity shoots up. Politicians follow suit and bingo. Social media in the US has arguably already led to young urban millennials zoning out of car ownership. The Economist believes social media has eroded the core need to travel in order to stay connected. Existing car makers are waking up to the threat of being reduced to onlookers in this new world and are beginning to become more savvy about tech and CRM data (their customers). It's why dealers are being squeezed (the marques want direct relationships not for margin but to stay connected to who buys their cars) and why Ferrari IMO created 7 year free servicing.....for the usage and CRM data, not to keep us happy. So, driverless cars is part of an increasingly fierce war for your data. Which is already being turned into many billions of ad dollars, and with global ad market worth around 700 billion USD, there's plenty of incentive. It's part of a much bigger game which has nothing to do unfortunately with driving pleasure or ironically personal freedom of expression. What does this mean for the values of the mighty F12 and similar over the coming years? It's what we already know to be true. If you want an appreciating asset that has four wheels and big silly engine, it needs to be rare, it needs to be pristine and it needs to be highly desirable. It's for a market comprising collectors who have the cash, space and time to give a damn about the future. For everything else, the resale market will IMO shrink sharply over the next 20 years so forget increasing long term values on wonderful but relatively available models, enjoy their relatively lower depreciation over the medium term and don't worry about the future. And if this all makes you want to kick the cat, remember that every time you use the "free services" from the tech giants.
Puzzled. Not sure what your definition of chassis is but Ferrari has described the modifications for the tdf and having a new chassis is not one of them.
Excellent post Camlet1. I agree except I wonder about Alphabet wanting to improve the world. I have a more cynical take which is it is equally possible they simply want to monetize our data. I attempt to stay away from these free services as much as possible- but I admit its a losing battle and its just one person so they won't care much.
Is that an Amazon/Google/Apple/Microsoft/Facebook drone I hear buzzing outside my home gently whispering... use our services use our services.... Wheres my tinfoil hat?
