My 308 Comparison

Scott,

My 2 Yen... get an early car with fiberglass body, carbs, and sump oil. You KNOW you will be tracking the car A LOT and glass it easy to fix, carbs can be tweaked, and the std oil sump 83 to 85 can get oil starved during hard turn.

PS: my apologies about the understeer, we really needed to adjust the rear sway to dial that out... tire pressure can only do so much...

 

Scott,

I think your assessment is dead on. I must confess that i have only driven three 308 QV's so I am speaking only from my first hand experience along with a lot of research I did before zeroing in on the car that was right for me. The QV cars are the best for a great daily driver with performance in mind. My second choice would have been a '78 or '79 GTS with the carbs since they also had more power. My last choice would have been the 80-82 two valve GTSi's. While the 80-82 looked the part, they didn't have enough muscle and I didn't want an under powered Ferrari if I could help it.

My personal choice was the '85 308 QV red/tan since it was exactly what I wanted and fortunately it was also the most practical for driving and had good resale value (I'll never sell!!!!!) If I couldn't get an '85, I was going to get an '84. They started with the rust proofing in '84 so the 84's and 85's are more likely to weather the aging process better. The '83 would have been allright but was more of a distant choice. I think they improved the water pump in '83 which was a nice advantage (in addition to it being a QV) over the 82 model. While the carb cars have the power and the sound, i understand that their electrical systems weren't as good and may have been more prone to engine fires. My mechanic mentioned that the fuel lines used on the carb cars were not as good as those on the QV's. If that is true, that fact along with the weaker electrical system may be a reason why those cars had a more problematic repuation in that respect.

Any well maintained 308 is a good 308 as far as I'm concerned though. I truly love them all and the above analysis is the result of a passionate search for finding my own dream car. I think you will be very happy with whatever 308 you end up purchasing.

Paul

 

Dang, I was hoping you'd driven a early GT4 as well.

Been wondering what it would be like to put a carb'd version of a QV in a GT4. It'd probably be one heck of a screamer!

 

I'm proud to be the owner of the '77 "living breathing animal" that Scott mentions. It is worth mentioning that my car has the Russ Turner airbox mod which makes it breathe better and sound a lot more animal-like than a stock carbed car. Nonetheless, there is no comparison between the sound of a carb car and an injected car with a K-jet system cork on it.

Scott, I am pretty sure that there were NO changes whatsoever to the suspension or frame design throughout the entire production of the 308, so the differences in handling are going to be due to wheels, tires, alignment, condition of shocks, etc. not due to "development" of the chassis. My car has 16" wheels and good sticky rubber on it, and I can tell you from experience that it handles a WHOLE LOT better than it does if you put the original 14" wheels on it. They are stacked in the shed!

No doubt the GTB is more rigid than the GTS, though I don't think most of us really need or care about that for casual street driving. For the track though, I would imagine it makes a big difference.

To me, the two biggest PRACTICAL differences between the injected and carbed cars are the usability and smell. By usability I mean, the injected cars are more civilized and modern. They start a bit easier, they idle smoother, they are easier to handle in traffic because they run well at low RPM. The carb cars are a little harder to work in traffic because they have to transition from idle to main jets in that region and they are are a little peculiar about that. It's not a big deal though. Once you learn how to drive a carb car it does just fine in traffic. (and yes, there is a technique to how you apply throttle in a carb car versus an injected one....ask any carb car owner.) Once you get them beyond 3K though, they rip like no injected 308 ever will. YEAH!


By smell, I mean the early no-cat cars stink to high heaven and as you pass down the road, dead birds will fall from the trees, and squirrels and cats will keel over. The injected cars are cleaner and more modern in that way. Better for taking the wife out on a date where she DOESN'T want to smell like hydrocarbons when she gets to the restaurant.

(As an aside, if you are an owner of a carb 308 with cats, I pray they "fall off." There is no way you can possibly tune the carbs to perform well and not destroy the cats! Just my opinion.)

If you want your 308 to be somewhat practical (as practical as a Ferrari can be, that is) you need an injected one. If it's a toy for laying waste to back roads on the weekend, you need a carbed one. It's that simple! Remember, Enzo designed it with carbs. Emissions laws made them injected.

There is nothing like the howl of a carbed 308 at 5K RPM buzzing down a windy country road!!!!

For you carb guys still driving around with all that muffling in the airbox, you really need to let the beast breathe and do the Russ airbox mod.

Birdman

 

Scott,

I agree with your observations but would like to add the fiberglass GTB experience to what you've reported.

The weight savings of the fiberglass body and an ANSA Sport muffler replacing the the thermal reactor unit (as with my car) is noticeable as far as slightly better performance in comparison to the steel-bodied early GTBs. It's just a "seat of the pants" feeling.

Barry

 

Scott- nice comparison, and I agree fully. My 84 QV was one of the cars compared. I also have driven the same 308's you base your experience on (except Steven's prepped 85 QV) and found Birdman's carb 308 to be a hoot! I drove it for the first time on Sunday and had a blast. It would take me a few hours to really get used to it, but the time I had was much more fun than I expected. The sound flowing into my righ ear (from the intake) was SO different than my car. Unfortunately, I had to bring it back to the BBQ . I could not feel any real difference in the handling, but I wasn't pushing the car so that's expected. I also agree about the sounds from both (carb and qv) cars. I find my car higher pitched at high rpm's- but that is mainly in the muffler, header etc. This particular carb 308 is more "throaty" but also would be due to the air box modification.

So, I still want to try a GT4, and a US 308 QV.

Lastely, I/we also drove a lovely 348 Spider, and that's a completely different story all together!! Ferrari came a long way in V8 developement from my car to this particular 348- thanks spider348!! I can only imagine a 355 or 360- someday......

Thanks again Scott for the positive comments and race-educated descriptions of these cars. You are welcome to take her out at any time.

jwise

 

THE FERRARI WHORE'S GUIDE TO DRIVING FCARS
What You Need To Know To Bum Other People's Rides

By Scott and Birdman


(It's worth mentioning that I am merely a student of Scott's "Ferrari Whore School of Borrowing the Keys", but learning fast)



Birdman

 

Yea- that kid has a gift.

 

Come to Hollywood and you can drive mine. Hopefully it will be driveable by then. And if you happen to trash a syncro, YOU can help me pull the engine again!

 

Saying it like Robert Duvall "I love the smell of a carb Ferrari in the morning, It smells like........................victory."


Sorry, that's all i can contribute.

 

Your background, race experience (real feedback), and genuine interest have ALOT to do with that. There are very few people I would throw ferrari keys at- and many of them were at the BBQ! Anyone who has ever turned a wrench on my car is welcome to drive it.

 

"Fun" is not the word I would use here

 

Fun?

Man, you HAVE to get some new friends to show you around if that is your idea of fun.

 

Where the heck were you two years ago?

I don't know if you have seen this one before?:


http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28437

 

You've GOT to be kidding! The most labor intensive, time consuming, awful, messy, disgusting thing anyone can do with an old fiberglass car is fix/paint it. You have fiberglass dust in your skin, eyes, hair, lungs and where the sun don't shine. Getting the compund curves right takes a real artist with a sanding block. The prep for the paint, the painting itself and the finishing take longer than metal.

Again, maybe the glass Ferraris are easier than my Lotus. If the panels can be replaced like on Fiero (or a Vette), then you have a point however.

Ken

 

There is NO question about that.

 

You have to try an early '75 GT4 with an aftermarket mufler. Mine positively screams (go into a tunel and rev it out to 7 grand.....like a tenor reaching for a high "C"). It is as fast a the '84/85 308 QVs that a friends of mine have. I have driven a '79 carbed GTS and it feels slower. I understand that the cams are more conservatine because of smog. All I can say is do not buy a later than '75 CARBED car if you live in California. (Semi) annual smog inspections and 4 twin ckoke carburetors do not mix. And I am sure that it will handle well when I put 16" wheels and low profile tires on it. Right now I am on 225-60 R14. Looks nicely period but the handling is not as sharp as it could be.
Martin

 

I can vouch for that, having followed Martin though the tunnel in Malibu just two weeks ago.

I kept wondering why you slowed down to 15mph as you approached the tunnel. Then BAM! My wife an I both laughed as we watched you scream to the other end...

Gawd, I wish I'd had mine that day!

 

Or this one: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115050