My 348 experience (again)

I never realised that my 'Dont buy this 348' thread would get such a response. I'm glad Adam posted up his response, but I never got a chance to reply. I'd like to reply if that is ok? Like someone said, there are two sides to a story...

YES POOR ALEX INDEED!!! - yep indeed!! Much skintness up here!!!
BUT IT ISN'T FAIR INSINUATING OR COMMITING SLANDER TOWARDS MY BUSINESS SUPERCARS LTD. AS MUCH AS YOUR LOSS WAS BIG AND PAINFUL YOU CAN NOT PRESUME WE HAD ANY PART TO PLAY IN THIS. THIS IS HAS NOW CREATED A BIG IMPACT ON OUR BUSINESS AND BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD I HAVE ALSO LOST SALES.

I AM HAPPY TO SHARE THE TRUTH (MY SIDE OF THE STORY) TO ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE MORE DETAILS (01303 269555) - and you can of course contact me via IM for the truth too.

BRIEF STORY:
YES WE PURCHASED THE CAR FROM THE BESPOKES CLASSIC CAR CLUB SOME TIME AGO NOW THE PLAN WAS TO PROVIDE THEM WITH A GEAR BOX. THEY DECIDED THAT THE CAR HAD NO FUTURE WITH THEM AND SOLD IT ON TO OURSELVES FOR THE PRICE OF £13,000 FROM WHAT I CAN RE-CALL. correct I checked with them. THE CAR WAS A COMPLETE WRECK AND YES AT THE TIME HAD A SPEEDO READING OF 75,000 MILES. I HAD ALSO NOTICED IN THE S/HISTORY WHICH WAS VERY LARGE IT HAD THE SPEEDO HEAD REPLACED AT 45,000 MILES MEANING THE CAR HAD DONE OVER 100,000 MILES - AFTER ALL IT WAS A HIRE CAR! ANYWAY NOT SURE IF I WAS GOING TO BREAK THE CAR OR REPAIR IT, BUT I STILL REPLACED THE DAMAGED GEARBOX WITH ONE SPARE THAT I HAD SITTING ON THE SHELF. THE REASON FOR THIS WAS BECAUSE THE CAR'S GEARBOX WAS ALREADY REMOVED BY THEN BY BESPOKES AND IT WAS ONLY A 4HR JOB TO REPLACE. PLUS THE FACT WE WERE MOVING UNITS SO WANTED IT MOBILE (IT WAS MOTED AND TAXED STILL AT THIS TIME.)
IN ALL THE PRESSURE OF MOVING AND NOT HAVING THE TIME TO TAKE ON SUCH A BIG PROJECT, I DECIDED TO LIST IT ON EBAY. ALSO REMEMBERING THAT I HAD 5 OTHER BIG JOBS TO FINISH FIRST ANYWAY.

WHEN LISTED ON EBAY, WE WERE VERY HONEST, POINTING OUT THAT THE CAR WAS A COMPLETE WRECK AND HAD OVER 100,000 MILES WE COULD NOT STRESS ENOUGH ON HOW MUCH WORK WAS NEEDED TO BE DONE TO PUT THIS CAR RIGHT. THE CAR WAS AUCTIONED WITH NO RESERVE AND SOLD TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, WE WERE VERY HONEST ABOUT THIS CAR. - can't comment as this was nothing to do with me at the time.
A GENTLEMAN FROM EASTBORNE CALLED UP AND MADE AN OFFER OF £16,500 APPROX AND I ACCEPTED, NOT A PROFIT CONSIDERING I REPLACED THE GEARBOX WHICH WOULD NORMALLY COST £3,000. THE GUY COLLECTED THE CAR AND PAID IN FULL NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN. - actually Adam now I remember, you told me the gearbox you put in was broken, not a spare.

APPROX 4MTHS LATER I SEE THE CAR ON EBAY AGAIN FOR SALE, BUT MUCH OF THE LISTED INFO WAS WRONG. SO I CONTACTED THE BUYER TO MAKE HIM AWARE OF THIS. I TOLD HIM THE COMPLETE TRUTH ABOUT THE CAR AND IT'S HISTORY AND OFFERED TO RE-BUY THE CAR FROM HIM DUE TO THE FACT THAT I HAD NOW SETTLED IN MY UNIT AND HAD CLEARED SOME OF MY PROJECTS. HE ASKED ME WHAT I WOULD PAY FOR IT AND I OFFERED £12,000 - not true, I asked if you would give me £12000 for it A LOWER PRICE THAN BEFORE BECAUSE THIS TIME IT WASN'T RUNNING CORRECTLY, THERE WERE ALOT MORE PROBLEMS WITH IT AND THE FACT THAT I WAS ABOUT TO TRAVEL 500 MILES TO COLLECT IT. ALEX EXPLAINED TO ME THAT HE HAD JUST BEEN CONNED OUT OF PAYING £22,000 FOR IT BUT NOW REALISED THAT THE CAR WOULD COST ABOUT £10,000 TO PUT RIGHT - IF IT COULD EVER BE RIGHT. HE TOLD ME THAT HE JUST WANTED RID OF THE CAR AND WOULD ACCEPT MY OFFER EVEN THOUGH I TRIED TO SWAP HIM MY OWN DECENT 1999 PORSCHE SO HE HAD SOMETHING WORTH THE £22,000 HE HAD PAID OUT. Your porsche was very nice, but about £14K at best & I couldn't risk loosing any more cash.

I TOOK THE PORSCHE WITH ME JUST IN CASE, SO HE HAD THE OPTION.

I THEN DROVE 500 MILES TO COLLECT THE CAR PLANNING ON DRIVING IT BACK CONSIDERING IT WAS STILL TAXED.
ME AND MY COLLEAGUE MET ALEX - HE SEEMED QUITE A NICE CHAP THOUGH QUITE SHY.
WHEN I WAS THERE HE ASKED ME WHAT MY PLANS WHERE WITH THE CAR LIKE HE HAD THROUGH E-MAIL BEFORE. I TOLD HIM ONCE AGAIN I WAS VERY SURE TO BE BREAKING IT AS THAT WAS WHAT I WAS PLANNING TO DO, I EVEN OFFERED HIM TO KEEP THE DOCUMENTS WHICH HE REJECTED, HE TOLD ME HE DIDN'T CARE WHAT I DID WITH THE CAR AS LONG HAS NO ONE ELSE WAS GOING TO BE CONNED LIKE HE WAS. No, you promised me it would never see the road again, it was a deathtrap, and it would be broken for parts. I PROMISED HIM THAT THIS WOULD NOT HAPPEN.

I THEN ATTEMPTED TO DRIVE THE CAR HOME AFTER PAYING HIM AND FILLING OUT THE DOCUMENTS AND RECEIPTS.
THE CAR MADE IT AS FAR AS NEWCASTLE THEN BROKE DOWN. I WAS THEN STRANDED IN NEWCASTLE FOR 2 DAYS!! WHEN EVENTUALLY I MANAGED TO GET THE AA TO TAKE THE CAR HOME TO KENT (3 TRUCKS LATER BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T GET THE LOW CAR ON THE FIRST 2), WHICH THEY HAD TO DO IN 2 JOURNEYS BECAUSE OF THE 12HR 50MPH TRUCK TRIP (THE AA DRIVER LED ME TO BELIEVE HE WAS ONLY ALLOWED TO CARRY OUT AN 8 HOUR DRIVE, IN WHICH ANOTHER AA DRIVER WOULD HAVE TO TAKE OVER)

EVENTUALLY I WAS HOME.

THE CAR HAD AN ELECTRICAL FIRE WHICH BURNT OUT THE E-C-U, ENGINE LOOM, AMPLIFIER AND ALARM SYSTEM. I FIRST BLAMED IT ON THE NEW £896 ALARM BUT WAS AFTER INSPECTION TOLD IT WAS SOME OTHER DODGY WIRING.

£2000 LATER THE CAR WAS UP AND RUNNING AGAIN.
I HAD ALSO SPENT £250 IN PETROL UP TO SCOTLAND ( IN 2 CARS), £800 WITH THE AA AS I WAS NOT A MEMBER, £100 PETROL TO DRIVE BACK, £400 IN HOTEL BILLS, APROXIMATELY £200 IN FOOD DRINK AND CLOTHES REMEMBERING THERE WAS MYSELF AND MY WORK COLLEGE.

THIS CAR NOW OWED US £16,750.

I LEFT THE CAR FOR MONTHS THINKING OF A WAY TO RETURN MY MONEY AND THE ONLY OPTION SEEMED TO BE TO SELL IT ON OR DO THE REPAIRS TO MAKE IT RIGHT AS IT NOW OWED ME FAR TO MUCH TO BREAK. - ok, we are agreed so far. I can't comment on the breakdown stuff

I FINALLY DECIDED TO ADVERTISE THE CAR AT £17,500 BEING COMPLETELY HONEST ABOUT THE CAR'S HISTORY, MILES THE DOGGINESS AND ALSO SHOWED CUSTOMERS A MASSIVE LIST OF REPAIRS THAT NEEDED TO BE DONE APPROX 40 REPAIRS - 2 FULL PAGES WORTH. Ahhhh now it goes a bit wrong. You told me you never advertised it, and it was a mistake. See below.

I WAS EVEN VERY CAREFULL ABOUT WHO I SOLD IT TO AND EVEN TURNED AWAY CUSTOMERS THAT I THOUGHT WERE GOING TO BUY IT TO FLOG ON AS A GOOD CAR.
I THEN 1 MONTH AGO REDUCED THE PRICE TO £16,500 WHICH NOW OWED ME OVER £17,000 WITH ADVERTISING COSTS. This will be the adverts you told me were dummy adverts and not real?

ONLY 2 DAYS AGO I SOLD THE CAR TO A CUSTOMER WHO SEEMED 100% GENUINE, I HAVE CHECKED HIM OUT AND BELIEVE HE IS GOING TO BE DOING THE PROPER REPAIRS, WHICH I HAVE ALREADY SUPPLIED SOME OF THE BITS FOR HIM TO DO. THE PRICE I SOLD IT FOR IS £15,250. THE CUSTOMER IS MORE THAN HAPPY TO GIVE HIS MOBILE NUMBER TO ANYONE WHO WISHES TO CHECK ANY PARTS OF THIS STORY Adam, IM me his mobile number please. I want to talk to him.

SO ALEX!!!
THE FIRST TIME I BROUGHT THE CAR I NEVER MADE ANYTHING BUT THE PAYMENT FOR MY GEARBOX
THE SECOND TIME I OWNED THE CAR I LOST OVER £2,000.

SO HOW ARE YOU MAKING ME FEEL WHEN ALL I AS A COMPANY HAVE DONE IS TRY AND HELP YOU OUT.

THE ONLY PERSON THAT HAS PROFITED IS THE GUY FROM EASTBOURNE WHO BROUGHT IT FROM ME FOR £16,000 AND SOLD IT TO YOU FOR £22,000, WITH A CLEAR PROFIT OF £6,000 SO WHY NOT DIRECT YOUR UPSET WHERE IT SHOULD BE INSTEAD OF PART-BLAMING US AT SUPERCARS!

P.S WE PRESSURE TESTED THE CYLINDERS WHICH GAVE A GOOD READING, AND THEN CHANGED THE PLUGS. IT NOW RUNS PERFECT. - see below, this doesn't stack up with what you told me when buying the car off me.

TO EVERYONE READING THIS, I THANK YOU FOR GIVING US THE TIME TO EXPLAIN OUR SIDE OF THIS LIE RIDDEN STORY. No, you've given your side of the story. It's certainly not lie-ridden, least not by me IT'S A SHAME, BECAUSE I FEEL WE WERE VERY PROFESSIONAL AND HELPFUL TOWARDS ALEX - BUT I SUPPOSE YOU CANNOT MAKE EVERY CUSTOMER HAPPY. AS FOR MY WEBSITE - THIS IS A TEMPORARY LAYOUT WHICH IS LONG DUE A MASSIVE UPDATE. THANK YOU AND BEST REGARDS.

MR. A. BROWN - SUPERCARS LTD
DIRECTOR

To answer some of the questions raised:

I admit I bought the car with my heart & not my head. Who would buy a car like this without an inspection? Someone like me spending some elses money with his heart in his head and his head up his ar5e!! I'm paying for it now but it is a learning experience.

Adam and I have both talked since then. I still don't believe what he says purely because the story changes every time I talk to him and I have told him I don't believe him. I wasn't bothered he was selling the car, other than the fact the advert used to miss the fact it was clocked, but I was bothered about the lies I was told (or what I perceive to be lies, make up your own mind...?).

Adam told me he had the engine tested before Sean (Eastbourne guy) bought the car, and it was blown on one side, hence the misfires. Adam also told me the car was a write off and had had the front end badly damaged & the roof didn't fit correctly. Now it isn't blown, isn't a badly damaged write off and just needs a set of plugs? Strangely, Sean had an invoice in the history for just that, which did not fix the problem first time round? However, Sean's invoice also had a 'tune up' for £40 - hardly confidence inspiring (not from S.carsltd I hasten to add). Strangely there was a £4.5K invoice in the history for a 348 gearbox from S.carsltd to Sean (Adam said it was a fake invoice with fake signature on it).

Adam and I have already talked over many of my concerns around the advertising of the car after what I was told. Strangely, Adam is stating here that he advertised the car, then reduced the price - so that means all of the following explanations Adam gave me were lies?
* Why was my brother was able to call up, speak to "Adam", and get the reg. number of the 348 that was for sale (mine) and that it only needed plugs (Adam said said three 'Adams' work for him and the car was not really for sale)
* Why did I get a phone call from a potential buyer asking about the car, and why I'd got rid of it as it looked good, and apparantly needed a set of plugs to run great (one of Adams staff was, again, attempting to sell a car he didn't want sold)
* Why was my old car was on autotrader 2 weeks ago, for sale with no mention of 'writeoff' but mentioning "incorrect miles on clock" for £16.5K (explanation too big to put here, something to do with prebooked spaces having to be filled and the car again wasn't for sale)

Why not just tell me yes I decided to sell the car for X reason when I asked? What can you believe? I have e-mails from Adam confirming he did not put this car up for sale, simple as that. And you guys have a post from Adam confirming he did, again simple as that. This is what really annoyed me and I'm sure some will sympathise with me. It wasn't the selling that got me, it was the feeling I was being lied to...

I lost cash because I was stupid and desperate - S.carsltd is a business, not a charity, after all. At the time I appreciated S.carsltd & Adam getting me out of a bind. I don't any more and would have been better accepting one of the better offers I had but rejected as my head was full of 'write-off' nonsense - after all, I didn't want to sell someone a write-off did I?

If anyone wants any more details about this - copies of e-mails etc, feel free to contact me - Adam has put up his number for his side, and you can just IM me for mine.

I will buy a better 348 in the future. I will buy it from a dealer next time, and be very, very careful!

Thanks for reading.

 

Put your dummy back in, you bought cheap and paid the price,hard luck.
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Ultimately IMO the buck stops with you Alex, as you didn't get the car properly checked - you didn't even buy the car directly from Adam.
Once he'd parted with his cash to you it ceased to be your responsobility. I (and everyone else on here I am sure) am grateful to you for highlighting this as not being in any way, shape or form the best example on offer, I don't really think Adam is trying to represent it as such.
Most (if not all of us) have been caught out buying a car - hell I'm in the trade and got badly taken by a Maserati years ago. S**t happens, it's not pleasant but it happens.
Sorry to be so negative but I know how frustrating it is to feel that you've been ripped off - just don't let it happen again, there are some stunning cars out there, don't give up on owning one of these, use the extensive knowlege of the guys on this forum before you buy next time.
Best wishes, Al.

 

Thanks for the replies, and for not just going 'Oh Adam such a scumbag' etc. You're damn right I'm not innocent in this.

Fractiousgit - nice pic - Your right, I did pay the price, but I never bought cheap, I bought crap, then sold cheap.
I paid £22K and sold @ £12K. I think this comes across wrong because of my personal loss - it's not that I sold the car & Adam made a profit & now I'm pi55ed off because thats unfair on Adam. He's a business after all. Adam helped me out as much as a trader could, but the lies are the reason I'm angry - know what I mean? If he'd said I'm selling it on, best I can give you as a dealer is £12K as it needs fixed, then sold it at £20K - fine. Please try to see past what looks like someone just pi55ed off at a dealer making a profit.
Al - The buck stops with me, yep I agree as far as the buying & selling goes. I wanted to highlight the car was not the best to Fchat. But you say - Once he'd parted with his cash to you it ceased to be your responsobility. - yep, and Adam could do what he liked with it right? But as a 'valued future customer' as he once told me, why did he tell me loads of lies?

I asked for £12K after Adam convinced me it was a write off, and Adam accepted. He drove all the way up here & gave me the cash & offered me the Porsche too (and the Porsche was MINT, and I mean spotless). He was also very polite to me and has continued to be so, despite all this. His stories have twisted and turned but he has never once said 'oh just f. off you a55hole, not my problem'.

But he in my opinion has lied to me throughout and as a trader it shakes the trust you can have in someone? I'm going to leave two examples here of what I mean and leave it at that, I have some more but it's taking up space:

Post up on Fchat
I FINALLY DECIDED TO ADVERTISE THE CAR AT £17,500 BEING COMPLETELY HONEST ABOUT THE CAR'S HISTORY, MILES THE DOGGINESS AND ALSO SHOWED CUSTOMERS A MASSIVE LIST OF REPAIRS THAT NEEDED TO BE DONE APPROX 40 REPAIRS - 2 FULL PAGES WORTH.

E-mail to me after I asked why he was advertising the car prior to post on Fchat (my e-mail & his shown, link is dead now but pointed to car advert, and his reply is cut for space)
Adam, you are a liar, can you explain this:
http://www.supercarsltd.com/itemdetail.asp?intCarID=29
I await this explanation with interest.

My Brother placed this Ad on the webpage months ago assuming this car was to be sold as a road driver (you see the Blue Ferrari in the background? I sold this months ago - on Ebay - please check my feedback), I then explained this was not to be sold as a road car so needed taking off straight away. This was obviously not done, and I am in fault for not checking this - this website is easily forgotten.

Before I sold Adam the car, I got email from Adam when I told him I had someone interested at £15K:
If they are guys willing to paying £15k and they are going to break it that brillant for you, and im glad. make sure the car is broken though keep the document and send them back to dvla. Side note - when you sell to a dealer, make sure you tell the DVLA. I got fined becuase I didn't. I thought adam would given he was scrapping the car but it's not the dealers responsibility Do not allow that car back on the road as it is a potential death trap, and as more things wrong with it then, than anyone can fix economically, with out cheating some where.

Of course after the whole death trap thing a person feels guilty and doesn't want to sell the car to anyone except the dealer whos promising to break it. Adam turned up with 12K, and paid 12K. The stuff about it being a death trap, about the engine being knackered, roof not fitting, chassis twisted, front end replaced, weren't necessary. Lets face it, no private buyer would buy it from me because it ran like 5hite. I think either I was lied to, or whoever bought the car from Adam was - because can you see someone buying a car at £15K, track or not, if it is a 'death trap'? I think the 'death trap' part was reserved for my reading pleasure only

I hope Adam reads all this and maybe replies to me directly. Adam, if you do read this - it's not that you bought and sold for a profit - you're a business after all and not a charity out to help idiots like me who buy the wrong cars - its the lies you told to both get the car, and pretend it wasn't really up for sale. That alone destroyed my confidence in you. Even if you'd said once I contacted you about the advert it wasn't actually that bad after all and yep you'd be selling it.... that would have been good of you to treat me with the respect and honesty I felt I deserved. You're a shrewd businessman, but your PR skills leave a lot to be desired, least for me anyway.

Thanks again for reading everyone. Expensive lesson learned, I promise.

 

Alex, I feel for you and this thread is a very valuable lesson to those of you about to buy your first Ferrari, hell even your fifth Ferrari, so whoever is right or wrong here, Alexs post should be viewed as a valuable lesson to us, and NOT an opportunity to generally slate the car trade (scumbags that they are...oops...only meant to think that then )

Fractious....please be a little less...umm....Fractious will you, regardless of his naivety, the dude has still lost a sudstantial amont of £££ and is entilted to be a little disgruntled aint he????

 

I think anyone would feel really peed off having gone through this. Only goes to show, yet again, GET IT CHECKED unless of course your an expert yourself!
This goes for anything, been in property/mortgage game most of my life and am still amazed at the number of people who buy £100,000s worth of property and don't have it surveyed, only rely on the valuation report which is exactly was it says. Same in UK and same here except here the mortgage lenders dont insist on ANY kind of report, scary or what.

 

Only goes to show, yet again, GET IT CHECKED unless of course your an expert yourself!

Exactly, had I done this I'd not have bought it in the first place, then all this wouldn't have happened. Plus, if I had bought it with a glowing inspection report, I'd not have been so easily persuaded that it was a wreck.

Was just on Terry Keys Motorsport website, who offer an inspection service for your potential purchase. *cringe* I try not to think about it. Seems so obvious now but at the time... it was complete lunacy to part with that sort of cash without getting it checked.

 

I'm gutted I wanted to buy that 348, I guessed from its description that it needed a load of work. I was hoping it would stay undiscovered and unsold until the summer when I get my bonus.
Ah well, have to keep my eyes opens for another one

 

Because of all this bad stuff being said etc...

Alex do you think because it cost you 10k it should now cost me the same.

This is seriously affecting my business and has also lead to one guy pulling out of a 35k car, a fairly good deal in his favour.

I have not lied about anything, I have only told you what I knew or what I had heard at the time. things change and so do stories.

The car was sh*t i sold it as sh*t. I have now had time to double check with the new owner If i can post his mobile on this forma so will do tomorrow.

Check all the stories you like ask him what i thought of the car, remind him it shi*t and it wants £1,000s spent on it, tell him its been in an accident, it doesnt run right, the mileage is clocked and i paid £12,000.

You will see he knows all this...

I have not lied...

stories have now become boring

 

well it seems to me that there are two sides to a story, yes Alex should have had his car checked - but, to me at least, something smells at Supercars too, just a little too much smoke not to have a fire around.

Would say that if your going to buy from a dealer, and expect that to provide some security, you should look at the dealer as a business not just a name. What I'm trying to say without insinuating it applies to Supercars, is that there are crooked dealers out there too.

Its not a question of what a car owes anyone - its a question of right and wrong

just my 2p

 

One key point here is that Adam (Supercars) did not sell the car to Alex.

Adam sold the car for 16k to a guy called Sean - at that price the buyer would have been aware that the car had problems., even if Adam hadn't told him.
This individual (Sean) then marked the price up to 22k and sold it Alex as a problem free car. This is where the problem lies.

 

hello? he didnt buyer from a dealer. He purchased the car from a trade/private seller. and was ripped off. If he had ask some one like ourselves, at supercars to check the car over, we would have warned him well away, and told him it was worth £12k not £22k.

I dont understand where we should have any blame.

I have only ever tried to give a good polite helpful service.

I did metion to alex if he want the car that much we could carry out all the repairs, cambelt service and paint work at a cheap price to help out. i.e cambelt change £495.00 full service cambelt, plugs, oil-air-fuel filter, and oil changes etc... for £850.00. I think this is a cheap helpful price.
i said car need between 5-8k to repair, there was a lot of work LOT.

 

I think the problem here lies in the fact that Alex bought a pup, because he didn't do his homework and for that he only has himself to blame, harsh but true.There are no good 22K 348's out there, all will need work and all will cost more to bring up to the spec of a good car, than it would cost to buy a good one in the first place.
If Alex has any gripe it is with the guy that sold it to him, not Supercars.So then why his he picking on Supercars, easy, because they are a trader and have more to loose and are an easier target than a private seller.

 

Bloody right that Steve, well said.

 

Glad we now agree.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136502312&postcount=50

 

I don't agree with you, but I promised Andy that I wouldn't continue debating the point with you.

 

Ok Lou

 

Sorry andy, of course you're right about that, I'd forgotten that by the time I got to the end of the posting

Comment withdrawn...

 

Totally agree.

 

very funny, no point in trying to debate with you cos you'll get your mate to close the thread when it's not going your way

 

Steve me old m8,top man you can't buy a good ferrari for 22k,well you can if you throw a bucket load of money at it

 

What has this got to do with TVR's????

 

Sy, how can you compare a bucket with a TVR..........




















buckets are useful

 

But they don't come in those cool colours......

Do TVR's come with a spade????

 

And made of much better quality plastic!