My 458 vs 991 TTS

Not exactly on point, but I have a 997.2 TTS Cab and a 16M. The two are hardly comparable. In fact, they are the exact opposite. Of course, I could never daily drive the 16M, while the TTS is probably the perfect daily driver for LA. The TTS is a boring rocketship that more than gets the job done on a daily basis and it's so dam capable and reliable. The 16M makes my heart throb. On the other hand, the TTS is faster than the 16M in all situations.

 

I think 458 is still way better looking and sounds better than 911 GT3 RS 4.0
But this 4.0 GT3 will run faster on track though. But again, speed is not everything here. A $80,000 Ultima GTR will be able to match the 918 Spyder on track, still nobody wants it.

 

I love that last picture - 458S and a GT3 RS 4.0 - I just have a craving for a 911 GT3 in white.

Congrats on two beautiful cars!!!!!

MDS

 

Visually the new GT3 looks a bit front heavy, not as well balanced as the old 997 version. But I am sure that all that air dam drapery has a purpose....

 

Compared to a 997 Turbo, the 4.0 has better feel all around (steering, brakes, throttle), more linear throttle response, much more crisp on turn-in, easy to steer with the throttle, better balance, sounds 10x better (the Turbo is very quiet), and is much more involving to drive. It's more raw and tends towards the race car-ish end of things. Which is not to imply that it's a race car, it's still very much a street car and is comfortable on longer drives or cruising around town. The suspension is stiff but still comfortable, and it still has AC, stereo, etc., and I use them regularly . The Turbo is softer, quieter, more comfortable, and very fast. I'm not sure which would be faster in a straight-line acceleration test. The Turbo has more HP, but the RS is lighter. It might be close. On twisty roads or a track, the 4.0 would be faster and IMO much more fun to drive. In bad weather, the AWD in the Turbo certainly helps out.

Compared to other GT3s and GT3RSs, the 4.0 is similar but "more of the same". More power, better throttle response, lighter, stiffer, handles better, brakes a bit better, and has more power available at lower RPMs than prior GT3s. It also sounds very different. Basically it sounds like an angry 3.8 RS...a noticeably deeper exhaust note. The throttle response is to me probably the biggest/best difference...with prior GT3s and RSs you needed to make sure you were at fairly high revs to get good response. With the 4.0, you can be at lower revs and the response is still immediate, and the car pulls harder. Press into the throttle at 4000 RPM in 4th and the car sprints away instantaneously.

Compared to the 458 and Speciale, the 4.0 still feels more involving. Again, the steering and brake feel is a bit better in the 4.0 than the 458 and Speciale. Throttle response in the Speciale and 4.0 are fairly similar actually. Throttle response in my old 458 was a little insane in comparison (slight pressure increase/decrease = fairly drastic change in speed), so it was hard to modulate. But I actually still miss it. The 4.0 and Speciale are much more linear and much easier to modulate, but you need to move the pedal a lot more. In the case of the Speciale, I believe that's because of changes that Ferrari made to the 458s because a lot of people complained about the touchy throttle. The 458 and Speciale look better than the 4.0 IMO (though I think the 4.0 looks awesome as well), and they both sound better (though again I think the 4.0 sounds great...just not as good as the Ferraris). The Ferraris also feel more technologically advanced: paddle shift, more sophisticated traction control, etc. All three cars are an "event" to drive, but I think the 458 and Speciale give me that feeling a little bit more. Power in all 3 is fantastic, and all feel like they want to go all the time. The engine in the 4.0 revs quickly and pulls hard from even relatively low RPMs at any speed. No matter how fast you go, it feels like there is more there. The 458 was the same way, but even moreso. Possibly because of the sensitive throttle, but I always felt like the car just wanted to go faster and faster. In kind of a happy way, if that makes sense...like a dog running in front of you on a leash. The Speciale, on the other hand, feels like it just wants to go and is angry and calling me names for not going faster . The whole feel of the Speciale compared to the 458 is a little bit more serious. The 4.0 falls somewhere in between. In a straight line acceleration test, I think the Speciale would win, and it'd be a tough call between the 4.0 and 458. On a track, I think the 4.0 will lap faster than the 458, but I'm not sure whether it or the Speciale would be faster. I think it would be close either way. Obviously assuming same driver, same/equal tires, same track, same day. A lot would depend on track layout, I think the Speciale would have the edge with longer straights, the 4.0 would have a slight edge on a twistier track.

All just my opinion obviously.

 

I agree on all counts. I think the question of lap times on track is just a way to judge the relative performance of cars. If you want to lap as quickly as possible, get a purpose-built race car and you'll beat any supercar for much less money. And be safer and have more fun on track as well.

Thanks!!

Oddly I think I prefer the look of the 991 GT3 to the look of the 997 GT3, but all of the other changes (no longer a Mezger engine, rear-wheel steering, paddle shift, electric-assisted steering, etc.) make it a very different car. Once Porsche gets the problems sorted out I think it will be a great car, but it won't be the same experience as a 997 GT3.

 

Wow you have terrific taste in cars and a wonderful garage. Thanks for the pictures and the great write up. I recently sold my 991 PDK and I have to say my last manual 997 was much more engaging to drive.

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

 

Why Porsche doesn't add Turbo to the GT3 while Ferrari has to add turbo to their V8?
If it's because of tree-huggers' pressure, I think Porsche sold more GT3 than Ferrari's V8. Haven't considered other 911 models with NA, like Carrera-s. I personally think Ferrari is playing with fire by doing this.

 

Thanks very much! I hate to hear that about the 991, though. I agree completely that a 3-pedal manual is more fun and involving than a sequential/paddle shift.

I agree. I'm not a fan of turbos, and all indications are that the successor to the 458 will be a turbo. I hope not, but that seems to be the way it's going.

 

Modern Ferrari's and Porsche's - way too clinical for me.
I still own my 993 turbo 4 with Techart conversion punching out nearly 600+ horsepower and for sheer punch in any gear at any speed that takes some beating.
But my biggest regret is selling my 993 GT2 Clubsport 450 hp 1250kg RWD turbos like dustbins - that car was the fastest most compelling, involving and at times scariest vehicle I have ever driven in 35 years of motoring - the modern cars from both marques are lovely machines but approachable and perhaps too nice for my taste or perhaps I was just spoilt by those heady moments in the GT2.

 

The next GT3 RS will probably also come with turbo.

We Hear: Next Porsche 911 GT3 RS Could Get Turbo - Motor Trend WOT

 

Wouldn't that be a GT2 RS?

 

GT3 RS is the lightweight version of GT3, not the powerful version. So it won't be added Turbo.

 

I raced a 991 turbo S off of a roll and won everytime. Not sure if it was from driver error, but these new cars are too easy to drive in a straight line for that to be a factor. Started from 60mph.

 

She will have a 4.0 L NA engine offered even in manual version not only PDK.Unveilling soon.Power :525 hp.

 

I read a contradiction in these two statements.

Does anyone know if there will be a 991 GT2 RS? Or has to represent the new GT3 RS also the "GT2 RS philosophy"?

 

achleitner seems to have killed the GT2 (RS) on accounts that there is no niche for it between the TTS and the future 960.
porsche seems to have an issue with nuerburgring-times ranking of their performance cars.
peter

 

What were you driving?