My best lap at Road America...critique please. | FerrariChat

My best lap at Road America...critique please.

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by SCKOMS, Aug 27, 2018.

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  1. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Oct 21, 2011
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    Spiro
    This was my 3rd track day overall and my 2nd at Road America. I managed to shave 8 seconds off my previous best time. I would appreciate some constructive criticism or advice. Let me know where I can make up a few more seconds. How much additional time can I realistically expect to safely knock off?

     
  2. E60 M5

    E60 M5 Moderator
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    Jan 2, 2006
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    Nice run!! Tires sound like they are at the limits in most corners. For a street set up there might be very little to gain. Maybe taking your breaking spots on some of the slower speed straights deeper before braking?

    Thanks for sharing!
     
  3. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Thanks for the feedback. I felt I may be able to carry a little more speed into some corners.
     
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  4. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2011
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    #4 Ky1e, Aug 27, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
    Nice job! To safely take off more time don't worry about carrying more speed in the corner (you are doing fine there) but instead work on the following:

    1. Braking later and deeper (while in a straight line).
    2. Faster transition from releasing gas to braking and no coasting. At RA there wont be any corners you are coasting before the corner. The speedo should either be rapidly increasing speed or rapidly decreasing speed, the only time it wont be is during the actual corner.
    3. Hitting all your apexes (get right up to each apex corner cone--orange cone).

    The key to adding the speed safely is not by being more on the limit during the corner and having a higher minimum speed (pushing the limits of corners while still learning can lead to danger), but instead brake later and and get to power earlier while hitting apexes.

    Note when braking later do it in small increments.

    Great job and keep tracking!
     
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  5. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Thanks that's very helpful and makes a lot of sense. Looking back at the video I can see where I was coasting before turns....I'll work on that.

    Regarding the apex cones they scare you by telling you if you go on the "rumble strips" it may set off your airbags.

    Sent from my Galaxy
     
  6. DougDish

    DougDish Karting
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    Jul 13, 2010
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    Overall very good, I would feel safe sitting right seat with you.
    My suggestion is to apex a bit later.

    As previously stated, you want to make changes / try new things in small increments.
    Start with positioning the car only a door length further before you turn in.
    Consistent turns and laps will allow you to try these incremental changes.

    Keep practicing and good luck.

    Doug
     
  7. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Doug!

    Sent from my Galaxy
     
  8. speedsport

    speedsport Formula Junior

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    #8 speedsport, Aug 28, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
    You're giving up a tenth or two by following the right side of the track between 3 and 5. The straight line between the corners is different then hugging the edge of the track. You'll be almost 1/2 track width off the edge as you're approaching the brake markers. Look at an aerial view and it will become more obvious. A straight line from the exit of 3 to the entrance of 5 goes back and forth from edge to edge. Most people don't get that one.

    Video below is looking out the back of my car a few years ago. 14:30 and 17:15 marks are the best example I could find of what I'm talking about.


     
  9. speedsport

    speedsport Formula Junior

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    Found a better view.
     
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  10. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Cool perspective. I looked at the aerial map too...I see your point....thanks.
     
  11. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Nice video!
     
  12. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    If you were my student we would be slowing down until you learned the braking points and the line.

    You missed virtually every apex and then pinched the corners on exit. Don't worry, we all had to start somewhere. I will have to say that the car sounded great.
     
  13. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2011
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    Ingenere,
    A little harsh-- it was one of his first track days and he is out there enjoying himself, his car, and did a good job of carrying some speed thru the corners. Most people are too timid, I liked that he was going for it even with limited experience-- those are the people who have the ability to get fast. In your defense, I guess he did ask for critique :)
     
  14. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    I did ask for the critique.....I can handle it!

    In the group meeting at the beginning of the day they caution you not to drive up on the apex curbs because you will either scrape or set off your air bags, so everyone makes a conscious effort to stay off the curbs.

    I would definitely consider professional instruction if anyone can make a recommendation in the Chicago area.
     
  15. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    I didn't mean to come off harsh, but you did ask for criticism. I have been a racer and instructor for around 30 years. You don't have to ride the alligators to hit the apex.

    When you find the correct line, braking points, etc, you will begin to flow with the car, rather than fight it.
     
  16. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    Echoing Kyle with regard to braking, your brake application technique and throttle application technique seem reversed to me. In this video you are early and gentle with the brake pedal, but late and abrupt with throttle application. As you gain experience, you will want the reverse. You want late, hard application of the brake and early gentle pickup of the throttle (from apex or just before if possible, balancing the car on throttle). It is not wrong to brake early when you are learning (better than too late!) but it should still be definite (but not abrupt as you want the weight to transfer to the front wheels), hard and steady. When you realize that you can slow down more quickly than your eyes tell you that you can, you can then move your brake point deeper into the corner a bit at a time. There should be little to no coasting. Lastly, on line, your eyes will encourage to you early apex. This was especially prevalent on turn 14 (a very important turn to get right). Turn in was early, and then you were struggling to finish the turn and had to delay throttle application and still had significant steering input binding the car up and hindering acceleration. I applaud the fact that you are out there learning. Keep it up. If you can spend some time with a coach, even better. I would also encourage you to try a slower car that is more race oriented and requires more momentum. Street Ferrari's are very capable cars, but power can make it harder to learn and softer street suspensions mask feedback.
     
  17. stibbett

    stibbett Karting

    Mar 19, 2018
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    I didn't watch it all but my first few cent thoughts...(I do video/data virtual coaching lol)

    Your braking is very very light and very street oriented. On the street, we do progressively add pressure to keep it smooth and prevent our passengers from flying out the windshield. On a race track, our initial pressure is hard, then we roll off pressure as we enter the corner. You're gliding some to the corner and adding brakes. Stay on throttle longer then get on the brakes, you'll make up major time there. Remember brake pressure is not always 100% for every corner, I see people going into a 4 brake pressure corner if we're pretending it's out of 10 and thinking they need to go to 10 pressure because it's a race track and misunderstood what I'm saying. It also sounds like you're shifting while turning into the corner but it may just be the audio sync. Get the shifts done when the car is straight when possible.

    You're off on quite a few of your marks. To practice any dynamics or get faster the line has to be right. So work on your turn in, apex, and track out marks. I see some early turn ins which you will feel run you out of road if at speed. Later is usually safer as you end up with too much road on the exit but it's all relative to the speed you carried.

    It's not always about just "having a better line" though. Sometimes the car is being driven in a way that makes it harder. The front end of a Ferrari is light. In the 488s and 458s I've driven they feel like they prefer a little trail braking to keep some weight on the nose as you turn in. So remember my braking comments? Our hard braking is in a straight line (100 percent tire rule) and we dial it back as we add steering. It takes very little pressure to keep a little weight on the nose to help get the car down to the apex. Then we're releasing and adding throttle. The throttle is not an on/off switch, think of it as a dimmer switch. Same thing with trail braking. It's a light dance to help the car do what you want, you can steer the car more than you think with the pedals.

    I could go on and on but I won't bore you.

    Either way, looks like you had fun, and that sound! :D:D
     
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  18. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Thanks to all for the feedback! Lots to consider.

    Sent from my Galaxy
     
  19. Formula Uno

    Formula Uno F1 Veteran

    Oct 8, 2008
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    Excellent thread...I wish that guys would post more video's and have them critiqued so we could all learn from them
     
  20. DougDish

    DougDish Karting
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    It’s a numbers thing. There are so few actual Ferraris and such a small percentage of their owners who track them that video like this is rare.

    The essentials of high performance driving for the beginner and intermediate are the same with a Ferrari as with other brands.

    For additional videos of track driving simply YouTube BMW, Porsche, Mazda, or other brand to see what’s what.

    To see Ferrari specific track driving we will all have to wait.

    I recently purchased a solo smarty cam and have intentions of recording myself in action and then sharing with others here.

    Doug
     
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