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My (Bob) Norwood Experience

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Russ Gould, May 23, 2018.

  1. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    It's all legal until the audit ;) :D
     
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  3. Cigarzman

    Cigarzman F1 Veteran
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    Hence , talk to your accountant. :)
    Really it’s too bad the way it played out. I feel for Russ , who had a vision that just blew up.
     
  4. Rickenbach

    Rickenbach F1 Veteran
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    That console did the talking for him. I've seen better work on a high schooler's Civic.
     
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  5. Jasonberkeley

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  6. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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  8. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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  9. Mikael-F360

    Mikael-F360 Formula Junior

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  10. MellyVille

    MellyVille Rookie

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    So what are you doing now? I do not see this take any good direction. Perhaps if a miracle happens....
     
  11. ExcelsiorZ

    ExcelsiorZ Formula 3
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    I have chosen to refrain from commenting here and in related posts because I have learned there often times seems to be a wolf-pack mentality that kicks in and the more one defends oneself the less pleasant the comments tend to be. Folks need to realize just because something is written on the internet by a person with a grievance, real or imagined, that does not make what they are saying true. The OP has stated many things in this thread and others that are false, as now has been determined in a court of law. The OP filed a lawsuit here in Los Angeles against me regarding these claims. While he filed his suit in small claims court, our case was actually transferred from small claims court to a Superior Court judge. The trial lasted for several hours, from the morning into the afternoon. To his credit, the OP was as well-prepared, as well as any attorney would have been. He had his binder tabbed with many things he deemed relevant. However, after reviewing all the evidence, after giving the OP an abundant amount of time to present his case, the Judge ruled against the OP and stated he was entitled to nothing and judgment was entered in my favor. I have spoken to Norwood and without going into details, once again, suffice to say, you can't believe everything a person writes on the internet. Accordingly, I have attached a copy of the Judgement while redacting the Parties' private information.
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  13. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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  14. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Judging by the picture you posted, it's worse than that :D
     
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  15. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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  16. Mikael-F360

    Mikael-F360 Formula Junior

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    Oh goodness. Did I read all of the 18 pages of this case just to feel that it was all a fairytale? Amen my friends.
     
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  17. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2004
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    While it's futile, water under the bridge, and irrelevant to the Norwood matter I have to respond to Buckley's self-serving post.

    1. The matter was heard in small claims. Buckley pulled some kind of legal stunt to get to another judge, rather than be heard by the regular judge. But it was held as a small claims hearing under small claims rules, even if it was held upstairs. If I am wrong, then I will appeal the decision. In small claims, there is no appeal by the plaintiff. So what say you, Buckley? Small Claims or Superior Court?
    2. Judge in question allowed us 15 minutes, most of which she allowed Buckley to ramble on about how much other Ebay sellers wanted for various Ferrari, Porsche and even Ford parts, all of which was entirely irrelevant. I guess he was trying to prove that I somehow got a good deal, and even stated that he had seller's remorse. (For a guy who had remorse, he sure as heck went to a lot of trouble to get me a title from the state of MT, as his CA title was not acceptable to the state of TX. All he had to do to keep the car was to fail to deliver the title and to return the payment.) Judge then took off for some kind of appointment. She did not allow me to open but not get past my contents page and then, with no minutes left on the clock, she allowed me to hurriedly go through Buckley's written representations that the car was substantially complete, that all the parts I could not see in the photos were in fact included, that the stock brakes were on the "rolling chassis", that the motor "fits perfectly", that the rear wheels would not stick out, and that "more like 20 hours" would be required to finish the motor install. None of that proved to be true. Due to the lack of time I was talking fast, and the judge later said she did not understand what I said. Which struck me as an odd thing to say as I was just reading what was in black and white in the Ebay Q&A, a copy of which was before her.
    3. She appeared after lunch and awarded us another half hour. Buckley again took a lot of this time this time quoting extensively from this thread without quoting the parts that were not in his favor. For example, he liked to mention that I was chastised here for not vetting my lawyer or vetting the car, but failed to mention that a lot of the chastising had to do with me not vetting him (something I could not do as his identity was hidden behind an Ebay alias). He dredged up every negative comment made about me by people he testified were "Ferrari experts" including the "urine" comment. Judge sat through all that. Judge then allowed me a few minutes to go through photos of the car as advertised and as delivered. She homed in on the fact that the car was advertised with the wheels mounted up to the car and flush with the bodywork, but was delivered without any rear chassis members, without any rear suspension on the car, without any rear brakes on the car, and the advertised wheels having the wrong bolt pattern so that only the fronts were mounted on the car, with one lugnut each. I further testified that when all that was remedied, rear wheels stuck out 4" either side, something Buckley assured me would not be the case. She asked me two questions: 1. Did Buckley state that the suspension was on the car. My answer "not directly". 2. Did you know this was a project car? My answer "Yes but I am not claiming the full amount of getting the car put together, just the part relating to the misrepresentations". I thought I was going to get a chance to explain that Buckley represented that the stock brakes were on the "rolling chassis" (which could only be the case if the chassis and suspension were in place), and that Buckley represented that the project was substantially complete which was far from the truth; and that "the hard part had been done" as far as installing the motor, that "more like 20 hours" would be necessary to complete the motor install, which was another whopper. He also testified that if the brakes were on the car, you would be able to see them in the photo. Problem with that was the front brakes and suspension were on the car but not the rear, and you could not tell the difference from the photos. But before I could bring that to her attention, she cut me off, told me that I had an expensive hobby, and closed the case. I realized right then and there that I had been outlawyered but hoped she would read the materials, especially Buckley's representations in the Ebay Q&A, before issuing final judgement.

    I was nevertheless stunned to receive the decision. I can only attribute the decision to the fact that in California, apparently there is some kind of statute or legal precedent that puts the onus fully on the buyer to inspect the car before buying it. Buckley brought this up as Exhibit 1, stating that I should have had a PPI (which he thinks stands for Private Party Inspection) done; I have done a lot of PPIs and my understanding is that you have to deliver the car to the shop doing the inspection, and that in many cases they won't inspect anything but the basic mechanical and electrical functions, all of which were obviously not functional on this car, so I relied instead on his written assurances as well as some telephone Q&A with Carl Steuer as Black Horse who I mistook for the seller. Carl told me, the day before the trial, that he had nothing to do with the matter and could not recall any of the detail. However, he apparently signed a lengthy (two or three page) declaration that was obviously written by Buckley, that Buckley presented as evidence that I knew what I was getting. So Carl, my friend, you are judged by those with whom you choose to associate.

    Buckley, in parting, offered to buy the car for what I paid him for it in its incomplete and unfinished state, something that struck me as a slap in the face. I think that may have something to do with his calling Norwood after the fact. There is no other reason for him to do so, my dispute with Norwood has nothing to do with my dispute with Buckley.

    I still say Buckley misrepresented the car, egregiously, deliberately and materially, the ruling notwithstanding; as he misrepresented in his post above what transpired in that courtroom. It was a hasty hearing at best, and I don't feel that I was given equal time to present my case.
     
  18. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Veteran
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    My guess is he objected to a judge pro tem, which kicked it into another courtroom. Nothing tricky about it and your lucky they had a judge available.
     
  19. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    From July 2nd.

    Articulating yourself clearly isn't a strength of yours, Russ, and you tend to compensate for it by over-explaining.

    You also don't see any of the flaws in your own arguments. If you did, you would do so much better in court. Or decide not to go at all.

    My sympathies.

    Matt
     
  20. Ducman491

    Ducman491 Formula 3

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    Yep you got out played on his home “court”.
     
  21. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
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    I figured this was going to be the outcome, in fact I anticipated much of what has happened so far. I did learn one new thing: never air your dirty laundry on a forum so an opponent can use it against you in a court of law.
     
  22. MellyVille

    MellyVille Rookie

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    It is mentioned before that most judges do not have car knowledge, which works against you ofcourse. Better representation or articulation of relevant facts would have helped you though.

    Also, this fighting will bring you nothing but sleepless nights. Go on, live more, worry less.
     
  23. YellowMurci

    YellowMurci Formula 3
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    What was the end of this story? did you get your car?
     
  24. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    This thread is why I like to deal face to face with every aspect of things, that way, no one takes the piss, they play fair or suffer the clear consequences of paying it bent. That’s not to say some still don’t try, but, fingers crossed, I’ve done okay so far.

    Russ, sorry to hear about the case, everyone has an opinion, mine is that by the sounds of it the seller of the pile of parts and Norwood with his supposed project build ****ed you over.. they’ll get theirs one day, karma is a *****
     
  25. AshAP

    AshAP Karting

    Apr 14, 2018
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    What was the outcome with your car?


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  26. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I think after we saw this picture of just the middle console, we're all afraid to know..
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  27. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    Whatever happened theirs likely a third turbo added to the project by now. Russ hasn’t swung by FChat since Sept 18 (his sn shows at least)
     
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  28. AshAP

    AshAP Karting

    Apr 14, 2018
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    Ah yes I’d forgotten about that, thanks.


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