My EAG conversion to DrS conversion | FerrariChat

My EAG conversion to DrS conversion

Discussion in '360/430' started by veilstylez, Mar 12, 2023.

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  1. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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    Jun 12, 2005
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    So I decided to do my EAG conversion to the Dr S conversion. Reason being that the EAG one just did not feel like a OEM car. What I mean is... the shifter/shifter tower the feedback and experience didn't feel like a OEM gated car. The shifter felt way too tight and stiff and most importantly mine didn't have the metal to metal click clack when shifting gears which I thought was the most important feature in a gated car. The day I got my car back I felt this. So I asked the guys at EAG why the shifter was so tight and notchy. They said "they made it that way and its better than factory(which I thought was a bold claim) and after driving their version conversion I won't go back to factory cars".....well that was wrong for me, because as I drove this car I started really not like it and actually started hating it, I wasn't enjoying my car anymore. I think most people that have done this conversion probably never drove a factory manual car or didnt drive one long enough to really know the difference. My previous car was a factory gated 360. My current car is my 2nd F430 F1, I sold my 360 for decent money and bought this 430 with the full intent to do a conversion. My 360 was inspired by Trev, Randy, JG360 at the time to do a 360cs gated...so I bought a gated 360 and started a "CS" conversion ish on it. After I finished the car I got offered good money for it and sold it.
    The reason I went with the EAG conversion was because at the time I got my car converted in 2021, EAG had the most experience in converting these cars and felt confident their product was good. OEM parts were really scarce and there really wasn't another company doing it with aftermarket parts, I just didn't think it would come back as different than OEM car. I didnt think their parts would feel so different. These are the things I found with the EAG conversions that I feel didn't work for me.

    1. The shift felt very stiff and when engaging and shifting into gears it felt very notchy (like when you install a short shifters on say imports and other cars). By stiff I mean in the shifter, so in neutral the side to side motion in neutral is very stiff, you kind of have to put a lot more force to go from neutral to 1st. The OEM ones require no force at all and its butter smooth. Going from 1st to 2nd just feels notchy and this also feels like you have to kind of put more force. I noticed with my 360 you can just throw it into any gear with no force and it will just slip into the gate, but with the EAG it was a little struggle and not buttery smooth......and at times it would actually not go in certain gears sometimes..like it would get caught and I would have to try again( and Ill explain why this happens which is also because of the EAG made actuator). It feels very ridged and stiff...like you have to do a step by step shift moves to get it into gears..it doesn't just slide in. The OEM 360 was so smooth that its very easy to be playful with it, this is not playful. Also when engaging reverse, you push down on the shifter and even the spring is so strong that its harder to put into reverse.

    2. The shifter stick was not centered, in neutral the shifter sits more left and closer to the left side of the metal shift plate(gate selector), so if I shift from neutral to 3rd it hits the side of the gate and same going into 4th. and anytime time you shift into a gear 1,2,3,4 it grinds against the left side of the walls of the gate selector plate. which I found annoying because I changed mine out to a OEM selector plate and you can see tiny pieces of metal shavings flaking off and landing inside.

    3. Mine was missing the metal to metal click clacking hits when shifting and rolling through the gears which was very important to me. On my 360 I was getting click clacks metal to metal end point hits in all gears. But I was getting nothing, the only metal ping sound I got was when shifting 2nd to 3rd and it was because I hitting the gate plate going into 3rd.

    At this point I reached out to EAG and ask them if there was a fix for all of this. They said that all their cars are the same. Sent me videos of some of there cars and none of them really fixed what I needed. My EAG actuator was leaking a while back and had to remove and send that unit back to them to fix and had that fixed no problem. After installation my 5th gear wasn't going in properly and I found out that it was just cable adjustments. I address my concerns to EAG and they offered to have the car shipped back to their shop in Texas to fix the problems. During this process, I was thinking it has to be the shift tower assembly, because one I didnt like the way the shifter felt and it seemed all my problems are regarding the shift tower. The EAG one is a custom made billet system that they engineered themselves. So I asked them if they can make me a older Cast version like the OEM of the shift tower like the ones they were selling earlier before the billet. They said they don't have any left and would cost 10k to make one. Ok Pass. So after researching and researching I concluded that what I needed they could not fix. So I never shipped them my car....which probably saved them 3k on shipping. P.S I didn't ***** about it, I just addressed my concerns and with no solution other than shipping the car back I decided I would go my own way about it.

    So why the Dr S... I have always been interested in his kits back when he started a thread on who would be interested if he manufactured some kits. I posted I was interested and when the kits were done he reached out. Sent me a bunch of pictures of his production and was really intrigued how OEM it looked. Then Samcrac did his video on his DIY conversion and saw that Dr S offers a version with the click clack metal to metal and one without, a quite version I thought maybe mine was the quite version. I started to research his products and the fact that his is OEM spec got really interesting. So I reached out and asked George(Dr S) for some advice and help, I told him what my concerns were and really wanted to try his kit. He was more than willing to help me with this project and get down to solving every issue I had. At some point I though how about I change out my entire shift tower to his and see if this fixes all my problems.
    So here it is .. I have both the EAG and Dr S shift towers and have both actuators and also a 3rd brand new OEM Ferrari actuator. I figured I wanted a OEM feeling car so I needed a OEM shift tower but Ferrari doesn't make them any they are impossible to get or just stupid expensive. This is the closest thing to Ferrari
    Heres the break down.
    Dr S shift tower is OEM spec. Its almost like a remanufacture of the original and looks original too. Its made 1:1 and can use any OEM parts if needed or wanted, this make it 100% interchangeable with OEM parts. The EAG tower CNC'd billet aluminum pieces all put together with screws to make a shifter tower, which I think is smart to manufacture since casting is harder, but its different whereas the Dr S one is one solid cast aluminum piece like the original. Im not sure what parts are interchangeable with OEM but I know the gate plate and shifter ball is. I think I heard that the EAG tower was made in pieces so incase something breaks that part would be easier to replace which makes sense but I don't see anyone or have heard of any shift towers breaking. Reliability, the Dr S unit since its a 1 piece cast I don't see how this can break or failing. The EAG has like 20 screws holding the tower together, maybe if some screws got loose would it cause the tower to shift or have play? ..in this sense the Dr S one is more solid built here.
    If I physically feel and touch them and play with both, for me the Dr S one actually feels more solid. For those of you that have OEM, there is less than a 1mm play if you hold the shifter ball and wobble it side to side. The EAG has side to side wobble mine got looser for me as I broke mine in. I would have to break in the Dr S one but there is barely any wobble right now. My factory 360 with 20k miles barely had wobble. The shifter stick is Centered on the Dr S tower YES!! Its doesn't grind on the walls of the gate plate...its perfectly centered. The EAG shift tower is custom made and designed their way and so its going to be different. Its not made with same exact spec as Ferrari so its going to be different.
    After installing the new shift tower. The stiffness is completely gone. Immediately the shifting feels so much better. At this point im still on my EAG cable which are Ferrari OEM cables. After some cable adjustments Im getting click clack in the bottom slots and I am way happier with this shifter tower. The car with this shift tower actually feels like a OEM gated car. Took it for a test drive and I really enjoyed the new shifter. Its night and day.

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  2. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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  3. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
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    Nice going. You made a great choice.
     
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  4. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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    #4 veilstylez, Mar 12, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2023
    Next was the actuator. After I installed the shift tower, I wasn't getting the full effect of the click clack sounds, I decided maybe it was the EAG actuator. I thought maybe the length in the arms for the actuator might be different...who knows..but if the shift tower was different the actuator has to be different. I texted George(Dr S) text asked for his actuator. At the same time I found a new OEM actuator from Ferrari and ordered that too. Heres pictures of all 3. The EAG actuator is a aluminum machined part, its actually beautifully machined. The Dr S actuator is almost an identical of the Ferrari, its cast aluminum outer. If you look insides the actuators, you can see the Dr S is exactly like the Ferrari. Almost like he used OEM parts on his. I started to play with all 3 and when pushing and pulling the control rod I noticed that the EAG was the stiffest, then Ferrari, then Dr S. The swing pivot action which is the up and down swing, the Ferrari and Dr S felt same and EAG felt least stiff here. Ferrari and Dr S is very identical, they act similar and feel similar. The EAG unit is different, the insides are different, theres a washer in the Ferrari and Dr S unit that the EAG one doesn't have. Theres a bolt on the side of the EAG actuator that the Ferrari and Dr S doesn't have. The actuating is different...its doesn't spring back. When you handle them its just different. Over all the Ferrari and Dr S are very identical, they act similar and feel similar... At this point the Ferrari and Dr S actuator is pretty much the same. I installed the Dr S actuator, with cable adjustments, I am not getting more click clacks of the gated shifter but most importantly which I didnt expect the shifting is a lot smoother. Its doesn't really get caught and the you can row through the gears smoother. the EAG unit sometimes doesn't going into a gear smoothly...for example: Im on 1st, going into 2nd, then 3rd and it will get caught and not go in the first time. then I have to shift try again from neutral and goes in. Sometimes this will happen in random gears. Im not 100% if its the shift tower because its less stiff now but its just smoother now. I am now on the Ferrari actuator and feels the same as Dr S. Theres one more adjustment I need to do and its the Rubber end joints. My EAG conversion came with OEM shift cables. Dr S pointed out that mine were the newer cables and not the 360 older ones. The 430 have metal end joints that attach to the arms of the acutator and the 360's have rubber end joints which have more elastic in them and will give a little a 1mm more to reach the end points of the gate to make that click clack.
    I have left the clutch and clutch master cylinder alone and have converted my shift tower and actuator with arms. Overall these 2 changes that I have made is amazing, the car now feels more OEM like and a lot closer to my 360. Its truly night and day. I don't think people will know the different until you drive a Factory gated car but holy crap what a difference.

    Now is my car the only car that had these flaws.? I have another friend that converted his car. He has other issues with his which I won't mention here. His car also doesn't center and is off to the left of the gate. I also recently went to scottsdale and ran into another random F430 owner and he also had a EAG conversion done. We talked about how his car felt. He said he never drove a factory gated car before and didnt know the difference. I asked if I can sit in his car and check it out. All Same thing, its wasn't centered and the shifter was very stiff. His side to side wobble was worse than mine. Pretty much just like mine. This confirmed Im not the only one. Im not trying to discredit EAG. I just wanted to let you guys know the difference on the 2 products(like how we compare headers/exhaust brands). This was just my opinion one the 2.


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  5. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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  6. BlacktopRacing

    BlacktopRacing Formula Junior

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    Very, VERY, cool and what an awesome writeup. Love the comparison pictures too. However, it all makes me glad to have an awesome working F1. I drove three pedal cars since 1984, but my first new car didn't come about until 2008, which was an E92 V8 M3 with DCT. Man, that Getrag dual clutch won me over. Yes, the F1 isn't the same, but it's close enough, and still faster around a track. So while I can truly understand and appreciate the desire for a 3-pedal car, I'm just too into paddle shifting now. I'm after a true manual 135i convertible now though.
     
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  7. 997

    997 Karting
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    Thanks for sharing this review. I got my kit from Dr. S and plan to start the installation this week. Before buying from Dr.S I called EAG and they were asking $25k for a DIY kit. At 50% discount with better parts, Dr. S is a no brainer
     
  8. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula Junior

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    Wow. Thanks.
     
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  9. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    Thank you for the writeup, very interesting

    So you think the click-clack is related to the length, and/or cable adjustment?
     
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  10. Flea7

    Flea7 Formula 3
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    Nice write up and great information !
     
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  11. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula Junior

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  12. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Great write up! The dr S parts look OEM. Fantastic!
     
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  13. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

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    Much better. Thanks for the photos.
     
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  14. 997

    997 Karting
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    Dec 22, 2015
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    That is ugly and embarrassing, poor craftsmanship.

    I want to update that EAG kit is listed at 35k in Normal Guy website. My advise is to do your research before giving away your money. Glad that other members are sharing their feedback, it will definitely help others. Thanks
     
  15. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    do you want to sell your EAG kit? pls DM me if you do.
     
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  16. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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    omg way better parts, even if it costs the same its a better, but the price at 50% off makes it a NO BRAINER. Wrenching on this myself I could of done the install myself, and if I did this myself I would have saved 50% and 10k on installation...I would have saved 23k. @LorenzoR always kept saying that this was easy to do, and he's 100% right its easy.
     
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  17. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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    It is something in the shift tower and a little on the actuator. Not the whole cable because mine was OEM but I think the rubber cable end joints too.
    Wait you have the EAG kit on yours... hows yours?
     
  18. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    #19 colorfull, Mar 13, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
    I have an EAG conversion from Nov 2020 and requested OEM parts, as some were available at that time. I think I was one of the last to be able to request OEM parts.

    My tower is a cast 2 piece (the way they were originally doing it), so it is a replica of the OEM, looks just like it other than a weld seam in the center of the base.

    Mine has shifted beautifully from Day 1, I put in Redline MT90 NS and even better, very smooth

    It is not 100% properly centered.

    I had click clack when I first got it, it had a gate that they made, I had to wait for the OEM gate.

    When I put the OEM gate on, I get less click-clack, but it drives so beautifully so I'm not too broken up about it, and with no comparison, I'm not convinced it wasn't this way from the factory.

    I'm wondering if their gate has slightly different channels to make it hit the metalFactory.

    Less than ideal pics of the tower, didn't know I was gonna want some when I had the console open

    I wish the Dr S kit was available then, I definitely would have gone that route. I look for the value added by EAG at their price point and I personally don't see it in the design and engineering or the installation (which is lacking from as they quoted it 'at or better then OEM'), and I certainly didn't experience it in the customer service at that time. I've written it up elsewhere.
     

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  19. RossoF430

    RossoF430 Karting

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    Very cool write up, thank you. Would you mind sharing who you used to reprogram your ECU?
     
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  20. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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    oh good questions...this im not sure of. But say it is, shouldn't it make it easier to slide into gear then? I mean can see how these cut outs could make it slide into gears better but this unit still gets caught going into gears sometimes.....maybe this helped a little?
     
  21. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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    OH nice you got the older cast version. Thank you for sharing, I haven't seen there cast version. Wonder what that feels like. I have no complaints about EAG installation, I think doing over 160's converted cars at the time they better have perfected it.
    Do you know what parts are OEM on your car?
     
  22. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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    I plan on keeping it for now...but will let you know if things change. Thank you
     
  23. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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    EAG did my install at the time, they did my ECU and no problems there.
     
  24. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    What parts are OEM

    I was told at the time they did not give out part numbers.

    I was told the shift tower, and the clutch pedal were non OEM and all 168 other parts are 100% OEM.

    So I'd suffer a guess it feels similar to OEM, it certainly feels great.

    My main concerns about the install were shift cables just hanging and no clutch pedal override, a couple other minor things.

    They have a beautiful cast pedal now, sadly, mine looks like it was made in 7th grade shop class, by someone in the class who wasn't doing very well.

    I disliked it so much I had covers made, it used to bug me, now I feel better.

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