Despite using that f word, very well put. Greetings to a fellow *isher. Must read the manual and see if Shimano use ceramic drag or just achieve the same thing with weight distribution and perhaps a bit of hand cranking. Yes Peter, the wine and food were superb, hope you had a nice night too. I assume you spent it on a king size vibrating bed with a beauty that wouold make us all weep
Very nice looking car, looks like mine. I enjoy the weekend entertainment with Aircon and FF, it's better than reading the sunday papers. However, can somebody explain to me why a car with brakes that are half as big again as a 355ch, doesn't stop quicker. The 430 ceramics have 2 pads per side and a much bigger area on the discs than a 355ch. The fronts are much bigger than the back on a 430 and let's face it, a 355 is 8 years ago technology. The figures I was quoted by Piero was the 430 stops in 106 ft(could be metres not sure) from 100k. He says way beter than any other previous model Ferrari. Surely the massive area of the discs , are gonna stop you better than a car with less an area of disc?
the question should be "what is the braking distance of a 430 with and without ceramics" Comparing completely different cars is rubbish. if you read the thread properly, you'd realise that the real limiting factor in hard braking is the grip of the tyres. Hence, I was able to well and truly outbrake AHG in his ceramic 430 with my 355ch because I had stickier tyres. What if he'd had hoosiers? Who knows.
is that right mr pedant. Originally we were talking about what the difference would feel like to a passenger...I doubt that, even if you were right, which you're not, of course, that the difference in one stop would be a couple of feet IF the driver was good enough to make the most of that modulation. I don't know anyone that good in the ferrari club. now you're just talking rubbish. do you think that trying to ridcule me makes you any more right? NO..it just shows that you have no substance and that's what you have to resort to. you're a nutter. We're comparing top flight disc brakes to ceramic...not drums to disc. You're bloody insane pal! Try sticking to the topic if you can get your head out from inside you know what long enough. For the average driver in the sorts of cars we're referring to on an average FCA track day OR on the road there would be no appreciably difference AT ALL. Did you know AHG didn't get brake fade in his 355 with standard pads on FCA track days? However...he did say he liked the feel of the ceramics on his 430 better. Sadly, we're only talking stopping distance here. If you can't threshold brake, then you should probably stick to push bikes. Now, if you'd like to change the topic to racing, i might have a different opinion, but we never were..
In understanding what FF is trying to say, isnt the question about the differences between ceramic brakes and conventional brakes more around consistency across a number of laps and/or hard stops If you put a brake pressure tester on the pedal (similar to the ones required for NSW RTA annual inspections, but something better looked after, calibrated, and more finely tuned) with 2 cars, a race track etc etc the difference between the stopping performance, in pedal pressure and braking distance (if you put the Leitz Correvit aboard as well) could all be measured scientifically
FYI John Bowe was a master experimenter with brake materials, and Allan has tried a few things himself, and the data logger does not lie... but of course, you don't need to know what the data says, you know it all already.
well...the reality of what he's saying is exactly what you're referring to, i suppose. however, it wasn't what we were talking about. in the same car with/without ceramics, there wouldn't be any appreciable difference in braking distances under emergency braking or on the track for a small number of laps. the strength of the ceramics is obviously after a number of laps on a track with hard braking. as i keep saying, more than that is NOT what we're talking about...well not what we WERE talking about...but i guess we are now. in a racing situation OBVIOUSLY there would be advantages with ceramics. OTOH...as i said...i had no trouble outbraking AHG and didn't have the slightest bit of fade, even with that extra work that the brakes did.
oh...phildo....are you talking about racing drivers under racing conditions? surely not, because that would be totally off topic.
See, and yet again your ignorance shines through. A driver on road (even r spec) tyres with road/track pads in his otherwise normal 355 on track, is driving much nearer the limit of his cars braking than a race driver is in a race car. Good drivers like AHG can feel their brakes/tyres degrading, and brake to what they feel is the limit, but if their car had data, you would see how the stopping distances and/or retardation forces drop off as the temperatures rise. A 355C, though, has bigger brakes than is necessary, and as you have seen yourself, they have trouble getting hot enough, so degradation is not an issue.
no..it doesn't make any sense because now, contrary to what AHG told me, you're telling us that he was "driving to the capability of his brakes" where he clearly told me he just wasn't getting fade at all. Remember this is 3 laps at a time. also....APART from all that...you big doofus you...we were talking about ONE brake application ONCE. Most of us would probably end up hitting the ABS anyway...so...430 with or without ceramics hitting the ABS??? hmmmmm. which would stop quicker? Carl...where are you when I need someone else to tell phil he's a dill.
...............will you guys EVER stop b i t c h i n ? you cant leave one thread alone! The official ferrarifixer and Aircon "you suck" thread was created for this ?wasinit b i t c h in you own b i t c h section b i t c h e s
Just my humble opinion (I know, I know, not worth the screen it's written on!): If you lined up two completely identical F430s with tyres in identical condition, one with steel discs, the other with CCB, conceivably, they'd both stop in pretty much identical distances, yes? I've always understood the difference to be that after 150 hot laps, the CCB car would still be braking as hard, whilst the steel disc car would probably be suffering heat related issues.
No I didn't. I said people like him drive to what they FEEL is the braking capability.... Most of us can feel when the brakes are having a hard time, long before they fade. If you can't, then there's always push bikes for you..... With ceramics, those limits are rasied, and what you feel raises with it... therefore, you use the brakes harder without abusing them, and you stop quicker.
Roman, go back to post 99. I told you then that for one stop they are equal, but in normal (meaning repeated) use, the ceramics will come out ahead. Or maybe every braking engineer in the world, automotive and aeronautical, is wrong..... It's possible I guess. Peepee would know more than all those guys.
