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MY FATHER'S 250 GT/Lusso

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Riccardo Olivero, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    Many years I'm looking for this car, hope someone can help.
    My father bought a second hand 250 GT/Lusso almost surely in 1965, he drove it until 1968 when he swapped it for the new Dino 206.
    Unfortunately, he didn't record the chassis numbers of his cars, and even the registration numbers. I don't even have a single photo.

    His Lusso was quite new, left hand drive, with 30.000 km on the counter, he bought it in Turin, Italy and he remembers the first owner was Mr. Genero, son of Alessandro Genero one of the most important FIAT managers from the foundation until the WW2.
    The first registration was Torino (TO), then my father changed the registration in Cuneo (CN), because with property change, there was no choice at that time. My father's name is Francesco Olivero.

    The car was in dark metallic silver (maybe Ferrari Grigio?), with the interior in beige/ pale yellow; my father says it was probably one of the first production Lussos because during a meeting with Ferrari workshop personnel, they told him the latest ones had a different differential or gear ratio.
    Had a 4 speed gearbox with overdrive.

    Recently, I read about chassis number 5141GT (Scottsdale auction, 2019), this car was originally sold in Turin via Garage Fontanella 12/1963 and almost immediately repainted in silver, coud probably be the one? I don't think those times in Italy a Ferrari dealer could sell many and the colour information seems to work.
    Anyone has access to more informations about 5141GT? Thanks a lot for any help.
     
  2. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    #3 miurasv, Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    The Lusso had a 4 speed gearbox without overdrive. Overdrive was on 250 GTE 2+2, 330 GT 2+2 S1, 500 Superfast S1 and other models.
     
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  4. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    Yes, I read the Gooding description and I tried to think: if soon repaintend in silver (maybe from the beginning and with a new interior? It was not a strange choice at the time in the super cars market in Italy...), was acquired second hand by my father when already modified a couple of years after; my father then sold it back to the Turin Ferrari dealer in 1968 buying a new car, and the Ferrari dealer exported it in the USA. There's a big hole inside the first period history known about this car. Everything should be considered. Thanks for your help.
     
  5. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    MiuraSV: thanks a lot, I talked to my father now, and you are right. His Lusso had 4 speed and no overdrive; he told me about the overdrive because he was mistaking with a 250 GT/E 4 lights, he bought in a sorry state about 1980. That car had an overdrive.
     
  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    6,925
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    Steven Robertson
    4 lights??? Are you sure that wasn't a 330 GT 2+2 S1?
     
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  7. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    Absolutely yes, it was a 330 GT 2+2, single cam Colombo engine. I was just 11 years old.This is MY mistake in remembering, not my father's. :)
     
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  8. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    Just to laugh, my father said that when he gave away the GT/ Lusso for the Dino, the Turin Ferrari dealer didn't want it. It was virtually impossible to sell at that time in Italy. So he suggested to try with Mr. Bordese, also in Turin, who was in the business of selling (and probably exporting) old Ferraris, Maseratis, and others. So he did, with a great money loss.
     
  9. 330gt

    330gt Formula 3

    Nov 12, 2004
    1,710
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Kerry Chesbro
    Hi Riccardo,
    I run the 330 GT registry (www.330gt.com), so I am interested in more information on the 330 GT that your father used to own. This was have been a 4HL series 1 model.
    Does he remember anything more about the car or have any pictures available? Where did he buy it? About when and where was it sold? I don't have any 330 GT associated with your last name, which I presume is also your father's.
    Regards, Kerry
     
  10. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    >Hi Kerry, about this 330GT, I remember everything, opposite than the Lusso and Dinos (two Dinos, one 206 and a 246) because it was before my birth. My father bought this 330GT - 4 lights (he said: "a really ugly Ferrari") about 1979/80. I was born in 1969. He found it in Turin, in the downtown, inside a courtyard in an abandoned state under a tree. The car was in silver grey, surely; I don't exactly remember if had black leather or tan. Also, it was in a very sorry state but working, someone had rolled an olive oil can inside on the back seats! I drove it with my father at the wheel a couple of times. There was rust under, serious rust, but the car had some 40.000 kms on the counter; the engine as I can rememeber, worked with no more than 10 cylinders. My father paid 250.000 liras (about 130 Euros, today:)) and then stored it. After a year or so, he wanted to sell in a hurry because it was the period when young people (me) in Italy disappeared under money request and he did't want to have a Ferrari then! So he knew an italian architect based in LA, and sold the 330 to him for 500.000 liras, doubling the sum. The italian papers were regularly cancelled some time after because the architect disappeared. What a nice business! It was long time ago, but I was shocked.
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    12,333
    Did that silvergrey four headlight 330 GT 2+2 have a TORINO license plate?
    Any old photos?
    Do you remember the license plate or part of it?
    Are you sure about the time frame 1979/1980?

    Marcel Massini
     
  12. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    >Unfortunately, I don't have any picture. The car had a TORINO (TO) plate. The date is reasonably sure, could be between 1978 and 1981 but not different. The fact my father precisely cancelled the italian papers for export, means he had the regular property and signature (at that time it was not unusual for someone "owning" a car but the name on it was another). Not this case, it was Francesco Olivero's on the italian papers, last owner. I asked more, the car was finally bought by a Rome architect based in California, probably LA but coud also be San Francisco...
     
  13. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    6,169
    SF
    7 pages of Lusso's starting here:

    http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/by-serial-number/ferrari-by-serial-number/model-index-60-64/model-summary/250-gt-l-part-1-index/index.html

    You can go through them one by one and at least eliminate many of them. Some have a lot of information, some have none.
     
  14. MBPaki

    MBPaki Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2008
    560
    TURIN
    Full Name:
    Miki Bellagarda
    04903?
    Best, Miki-Paki.
     
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  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  16. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    I already tried to do my best with the incredible barchetta.cc number database. With every possibile mean and information, I can eliminate nearly 50% of the production. Nearly 150 cars are still to chose. Thanks for the advice, anyway.
    GT/Lusso 4903 is one of the cars without informations about colours and owner destination. Miki Bellagarda, being me and you probably live 45kms away if you are based in Turin, can you help me with some more? If so, please write me on arcovir2@gmail.com. A couple of years ago I tried with Ferrari Classiche, asking about to contact the actual owner (if known to them) and give my contact and then let things go at the owner's will, nothing more obviously, I didn't ask even for chassis number; they immediately told me they cannot give any help if it's not my car. I think knowing everything about every moment of the life of a precious car, with 1965/68 owner still alive and 84 years old, should be of big value.
     
  17. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    12,333
    4903 GT:
    Original exterior color: Grigio Fumo 18944 M Italver.
    Original interior color: Beige VM 3218.
    Chassis type 539 U.
    Engine type 168 U, internal #1572/62 E.
    The 99th of a total of 350 units built.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  18. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    Thanks a lot Marcel, these informations are very moving for me. This car should have been registered to Mr. Genero (son) or maybe to his firm; he had an activity in doing parts working for FIAT, my father did the second hand purchase inside his warehouse in Turin.
    Seems could be this one...Garage Fontanella 1963. First of all, this car has survived for sure. Maybe the current owner could chose to contact me, if he should like.
     
  19. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
    12,333
    Here's a photo I took of 4903 GT in 2005.
    The car has been repainted and retrimmed several times in the past 56 years.

    Marcel Massini

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  20. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    Needless to say, I'm really touched to see the car. I know now these vintage Ferraris are investment options and so on, and some simply are cars no more, being more expensive and exclusive than a Cote d'Azur mansion. But for me, this is the car my father drove for some three years and also, with my grandfather I never met. I wonder where is now. Thanks a lot for the pictures and informations, Miki and Marcel. You have been more than great help.
     
  21. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

    Feb 26, 2006
    5,630
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    Paul Harris
    So, is it confirmed your father's car was 4903 GT?

    Paul
     
  22. Riccardo Olivero

    Feb 9, 2016
    11
    Turin, Italy
    Currently, I don't have complete license plates and the italian papers confirmation. But there's a very strong path: 4903 was the only Grigio Fumo with Beige interior GT/Lusso sold by Garage Fontanella with a Turin (TO) license plate. Seems to work almost surely. Any advice or help welcome.
     
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  23. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Nov 8, 2003
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    Armen
    Please don't stop this thread till confirmed.
     
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