my ferrari dream and project..a short story

Like several others here, I've toyed with the exact same idea Steve - i.e. wanting to build that same car. Interestingly, I've never wanted to duplicate any other model - there's just somehting about that particular shape! I never got nearly as far as you have in your planning, but I wish you all the best.

I agree with the others here that suggest you should build the frame. It's a way to build your skill level and will be a wonderful accomplishment in itself to carry you into the body work phases. I spent a little time in the Marcos (England) factory and can say that frame work goes quickly.

In my initial plan, I was going to sacraficen purism for innovation where it made sense - For example, I would use disc brakes for the extra margin of safety they would afford my car and occupants. Or maybe I just hate adjusting those old drums!

For me, the goal would have been to duiplicate the body and still have mechanicals that I would have been proud to lift the hood for. I've always loved alfa engines and drivetrains.

( First time poster, by the way. I'm pleased to have found such a nice group. ~ Cheers, Scott)

 

I do not believe it is as hard as you think. We are talking about old blocks that have wet liners ... thus water passages are a piece of cake.

Now I looked into this a fair bit when I was dreaming about creating a 250LM replica. Because I am dead against using genuine Ferrari engines/components in replicas I had to find a 3.3 ltr v12 engine. After a little research I found that the 2 ltr BMW straight 6 engine of the early 70's is within 2mm of the right bore size ... and importantly single overhead cam and 2 valves per cylinder.

Thus make a crank (insert $$$'s but people have homemade cranks before so WE all can do this) and a block (a block is easier to cast than a cylinder head) and sort out the camshaft drive issues (one head would have to be modified as the cam drive would have to change ends ... but solvable) and you have a pretty damn good copy of the 250 LM engine (really 275 LM except first car).

Now ofcourse this does not help you as you want a much smaller engine. Maybe you should look at motorcycles ... are there any 750cc 6 cylinder bikes. It is easy to join 2 straight engines into a V ... you can cheat and use shared big end connecting rods. This is where one pistons rod actually bolts via a bushed end (like a little end) to the other rod ... thus the cylinders are not staggered like a traditional V engine. There is a guy in England (I think) that has built v8 and v12 bikes doing this.

Anything that Ferrari made (er, or anyone really) can be remade. You need to find a alloy casting company and talk with them and take it too the next level. Yes it will cost $$'s, but you can save the $$'s by machining much of this yourself ... and guess what to do this project you NEED a lathe and a mill (probably) otherwise you are really pissing against the wind. You will be surprised how many times you need to machine something ... and paying somebody to do this everytime is going to bankrupt you. Buy a second hand single phase lathe for $500-$1000 and it will be the best investment you have ever made. Even making jigs for chassis manufacture will require some machining ... even just making spacers, etc.

As soon as I purchase a house (going through the drama NOW and then build MY workshop ... I will be searching the second hand ads for one, 'cause I really miss my Dad's lathe!).

Pete

 

Could you link 3 600cc V4s-ideally indexed to give a relatively smooth firing order? Much more HP than the original-

 

Thanks for the correction.

 

One of the teachers I had when I went to trade school, is a member of this forum Metalmeet (Kerry Neilson of B.C.I.T. - Awesome guy, out-of-this-world welder and fabricator).

 

Where did you get your lens? One is supposed to use a cobalt-blue lens, but the cobalt has a slight radioactiveness to it and thus, its not on the market anymore (like the gases and fumes in welding are safer...).

I've done aluminum gas welding before using a spray-flux welding torch system, but without this proper lens, it is really tricky... And makes me go back to TIG!

 

There was a retro-hot-rod for sale at the past Barrett-Jackson auction (don't remember which exact car it was), that the TV anouncers pointed out that it had Buick drum brakes and that they used these quite often on these hot rods as they were pretty effective. They looked very big (my guess, 14"+ diameter, about 1 1/2" wide, finned). I don't know if the spindles/king-pins were knock-off type, or had a multi-bolt flange for attaching the wheels. I'm sure a bit of lathe work can make into a knock-off system if need be.

 

People have been making castings for what, a thousand years? More? Every single early car was made by hand, and many parts were cast, and most one offs. The Wright Brothers made thier own crude airplane engine, cast their own block. Ive read how many modelers in europe cast tiny parts for 1/43 scale model cars to add to them. I sure wouldnt claim to know a lot about something ive never done, but if people were doing it in back alley garages 100 years ago, it cant really be that overly difficult. We have a hell of a lot more knowledge to tap into into than anyone back in the 1930's had. I use the '30's because although Ferrari started up in '46, all the technology was from the 30's, including casting.

But knowing what we know now, wouldnt a little 2 liter V-12, with twin cam 4 valve heads, and built to sing, just be the cats meow? Mmmmmmmm. It woudnt need to put out more than 150 HP to be just a jewel of an engine to run through the gears.

 

Yep I hear ya ! ... bit of research and hard work and look what you have made ... awesome fun.

Pete

 

Can yu buy the drawings from GILCO/Tafiltubi?

Pete

 

Steve, I sent you a PM concerning this a while ago. Did you ever receive it?...

 

Pete,
Why are you so against Ferrari engines being used in Ferrari clones? It seems to me that there are probably a lot of homeless engines out there looking for a car, with accidents taking out the cars but not the engines.

Also, you know that all the Alfa, Fiat and BMW owners are cursing you, to suggest that it's OK to use THEIR engines in a Ferrari clone but not a Ferrari engine!

Birdman

 

Its simply a numbers game. Look at the production volumes and then you will see why using an Alfa Romeo (which I am first and foremost a bigger fan AND owner), FIAT or BMW engine is not sacrificial versus using a genuine Ferrari engine where they were made in only low hundreds.

Alfa Romeo made tens of thousands of the modern v6 engines ... so who cares if you steal one of those.

Now if you stole a GTA or GTAm, or (early) 8c or even 6c engine for a lowly replica that would have me rightly pissed ...

I'm not being a Ferrari nutter, just like I said looking at the numbers and would hope that the genuine cars get first dibs at genuine Ferrari parts ... to keep them running.

Pete

 

My idea is to build a replica 330 P3, but rather than a v-12, I want to use a v-8 and 6-speed manual trans out of a 360; either that or a front engined 250 replica using the v-12 and 6-speed manual out of a 550/575. With the number of cars that are being wrecked and salvaged, there are lots of engines out there and if I'm willing to pay $15k for a 360 engine and gearbox, then I think it's ok.

 

So the tubing is made out of cro-moly?

 

It was not my intention to offend you ... infact I thought you were planning to not use genuine historic Ferrari parts and make her right for looks and feel, etc. Thus I thought we were on the same side.

Your opinion, infact it will probably be better built than a genuine 166.

My simple point is that there is not that many of these engines ... I prefer that those restoring genuine Ferraris get access to these 'spare' parts. The replica market just pushes the prices up and makes restorign genuine Ferraris more difficult.

In the end I can not stop anybody buying any Ferrari and cutting it up for another purpose, be that a replica or simply to piss me off
Pete

 

Pete,
I certainly see your point if we're talking about vintage Ferrari engines that truly are limited. But if someone wanted to put a 355 or 360 engine in a replica, I'm not sure the world will miss a few of them!

Birdman