my ferrari dream and project..a short story | Page 5 | FerrariChat

my ferrari dream and project..a short story

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by stevel48, Jan 31, 2005.

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  1. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    That was not my intention ... like I said I'll shut up now :(

    Pete ;)
     
  2. stevel48

    stevel48 Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2005
    1,998
    Metrowest MA
    Full Name:
    Steve (85 308 Owner)
    i'd love nothing more than to take 20k, buy all the parts now and start building. I dont have the skills to do that yet. This is going to be a loooong project. I have to start with the proper education first. I dont want to screw up a weld on a chassis support. Having the frame snap while driving wouldn't be a good thing.

    things i have to do

    learn to weld-education first
    learn more about custom fab suspensions and geometry
    buy the chassis tubing and suspension parts
    build the chassis and custom front suspension
    add engine and tranny
    learn metal shaping and how to build body bucks
    build the buck
    build the body
    interior and wiring
     
  3. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    16,601
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    Steve,

    You might enjoy a catalog from Speedway Motors. www.speedwaymotors.com
    It's free, and it makes for some good planning.
    It has fun tooling like tubing benders and notchers, and suspension components, and heim joints, and Dzus fasteners, and racing suits and the like. It's aimed at circle track racers and hot rodders, but I think you might find some things interesting. (Make sure you get the big catalog; some of the smaller specialty ones might be less up your alley.)

    Keep going!

    --Matt
     
  4. stevel48

    stevel48 Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2005
    1,998
    Metrowest MA
    Full Name:
    Steve (85 308 Owner)
    the reserch has been done for some time. I have some good blueprints and lots of material on how the car was put together. I just contacted a company that would be able to build the wooden body buck using a giant mill that would carve it out of a giant block of wood. This would make alife a lot easier sinc this buck seems the be a difficult thing. we'll see. The project is still alive though.
    Steve
     
  5. Randy Forbes

    Randy Forbes Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2006
    741
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Sports Cars Plus,LLC
    If you make this accurately, it would be of benefit to future restorers of original cars and you could reap some of the costs. Ideally, you'd make friends with the owner of an original car and he'd let you use a DMM to profile the body. You might even find yourself in a position of supplying body panels!

    Glad to see you're still on track.
     
  6. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    hi you will get alot of critical comments from the purests but don't be discouraged. one of the nice things about building a repro is that you will be able to drive it all you want and not worry about the mileage. i am building one. it is a 250 california and if you are interested contact mike at [email protected]. they make a nice chassis which you could then build the body for. another idea is to buy a 250 gte or 330 gtc and use it as a donor for your project. go to e-bay. there are usually several of these for sail. good luck and take your time. [email protected] george
     
  7. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Oh come on George you are not serious.

    I have absolutely nothing against replicas, as do most people, except for the using of important cars as donar cars!!!

    For fnck sake, those GTE's and GTC's are friggin far more important than any replica AND will increase in value and provide just as much driver enjoyment as any replica ... and if you have the skills to create a replica you can restore anything!

    Come on guys use a high quantity production car as a donor ... like a Ford, Jaguar or Chev or something Japanese, and save the parts for keeping the real deal on the road.

    Man I really thought we had matured out of this past the 80's ... errrr!!!!
    Pete
     
  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    You may want to consider using the proper blueprint for a 166 as the one you've posted is not correct.
     
  9. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    hi, sorry. i wrote this thread in a real hurry. what i meant was using a 1960s 250/330 2+2 as a donor. you are right.the 330 gtc is much to nice and valuable car for a donor. ferrari built several thousand of the 2+2 cars and the values of these cars are much to low to offset the cost of a good restoration. these cars have been used as donors for some very nice replicas and as long as the builder clearly states exactly what the car is, that is fine. i am trying to incorperate period ferrari parts in the car i am building including seats and interior pannels from a 2+2. that was basicly destroyed. thanks for pointing out my error. [email protected] george
     
  10. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,799
    Santa Fe, NM

    fortunately, there is a lunatic fringe of crazies - living primarily at tomyang.net - who disagree and restore old Ferrari 2+2s even though it makes no financial sense; we do it because we love these special - and dwindling - old Ferraris. If you are using a donor 2+2 that was destroyed, then more power to you. I personally believe that the day is not too far away when there will actually be more surviving Lussos than 250 PF Coupes because of the market for replica GTOs and TR59s and the mindset re: "uneconomical" restorations for PF Coupes and 2+2s. It looks like the PF Coupe may enjoy a reprieve in this market cycle since it is finally getting the respect and admiration I think it has always deserved.
     
  11. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    George,

    The problem with your view is that it is simply YOUR view. Many other people have a great deal of respect for a 250 2+2 and just because YOU do not like them does not mean YOU should deprive the rest of the Ferrari world of another one.

    Yes cars get destroyed, so sometimes parts do come up ... but out there somewhere is a person who is not a millionaire living his dream of restoring a mundane 2+2 Ferrari, and he has just noticed (for example) that his engine block is cracked and he needs another one. Thanks to the market for these parts for cr@ppy replicas he can't afford to buy one ... and I know where those spare parts REALLY belong => keeping old Ferraris on the road!

    And I'm sorry any replica that uses genuine Ferrari parts is a piece of **** in my books and the person that did it should be ashamed.

    I'd love to make a 250LM replica ... but I can tell you there would not be a single Ferrari part on it, but it would have the same power, same weight, same balance and drive as close as I could make it to a real one ... but I don't have to scavenge the genuine Ferrari parts bin and live in shame to live my dream. This will never happen, because I'd be able to buy a 308GT4 for less money and thus enjoy a real but humble Ferrari, and all its flaws.

    Best for you and your project ... because ofcourse this is just my opinion.
    Pete
     
  12. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    Why does everybody assume that a 250GTE was ripped apart just to make any particular replica? Maybe the original body was destroyed in a wreck 40 years ago and the frame was saved from rusting away in a scrap yard 30 years ago. The chances of ever reuniting a ho-hum 250GTE with its wrecked body after 40 years is slim to none. Might as well put it to good use in a nice replica. Since the frame would be genuine Ferrari, it's still legally a Ferrari in most states.
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    As usual Arlie, your reading abilities er, leave a lot to be desired.

    I said (rephrased to make it clearer): Those parts from the wrecked Ferrari should be used to restore other genuine Ferraris, not to make replicas.

    Here:
    And there are plenty of good 250 2+2 bodies that could be saved with that hypothetical rusty frame you just found ;). Yeah it won't have matching numbers, but it's still a better use of genuine parts.
    Pete
    BTW: I believe the 166 replica that is going to built in this thread, is not going to use an old Ferrari engine ... which gets a major thumbs up from me.
     
  14. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
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    george burgess
    hi pete, yes this in my 'one man's opinion'. let's say i had a budget of $200k for ferrari projects. there are so many ways to use this and i might very well include a 250 gte as an 'every day' driver. if i wanted a donor car for a replica project there are many ways to find one that is, for what ever reason, beyond any reasonable hope of bringing back to life. this is the only area where i would consider a donor car coming from.. as i have a much smaller budget to work with i must compromise. for five years i owned a 328 in italy. driving a ferrari in italy has got to be as close to nirvana as i will ever get. if you would like to,hear more just ask and i will give you an ear full. yes my thread was my opinion and i don't expect everyone to agree with me. can we agree to disagree? i hope so. keep the faith. george
     
  15. stevel48

    stevel48 Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2005
    1,998
    Metrowest MA
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    Steve (85 308 Owner)
    What 166 blueprint are you referrign to? 166 SC. 166 MM, 166 berl? There are a number of chassis designs. The one i have the print for is the 166 MM that Paul Russell and co restored. I have it in a a book by Gilco, a book about the tipo 166 and one other docs randomly found on the web.

    others--My goal isn't to butcher a 250 or create a psudo-ferrari. I can't spend 2.5 mil on a car that i love. But i can obtain the skills to body a chassis. I can learn how to weld (which i have already done) up a frame from blueprints. i would use a modern suspension set up and some type of straigt 6 or 4 to match the HP and weight of the original. Say what you like people but this is a fun dream/project. In the mean time I am on the verge of buying at 308, mondial or 400/412. (maybe a lotus esprit S4) I'm only 30 and cannot spend 60-70 on a testarossa but I sure al hell will before i'm 55. So i have time and in the mean time i can still own a poor-mans ferrari and enjoy the hell out of it. It's like buying a silkscreen print of say "starry night" we all know it's not the real one and no one is pretending it is.

    As far as finding a 250 to butcher....i love those too much to chop. Those that do will just drive up the prices of the remianing exapmles. In 1999 you could get a 250 gte running for say 35k. Now i see those same cars for 65-100k. I saw that happening in 1999 but i was only 22 or so and straight out of college with no money. In the next 10 years we'll start to see the last affordable v12 (the 400's) start to move on up.


    enjoy the discussion
    Steve
     
  16. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    Of course one could extrapolate the concept to ask "Why try to duplicate a Ferrari?" Everybody will know that it is a replica or clone. And the hardships associated with duplicating the chassis and body will be very trying, and expensive. Why not just design your OWN car? That seems to be done very seldom these days, even though the hardware and design possibilities FAR exceed what was available 20 years ago. A friend and I have talked for years about ignoring the rising costs of rare collector vehicles and simply starting from scratch to design and build our OWN version of a modern classic. Replica Ferrari or custom design; either way, you're not going to be on the green at Pebble Beach or avoid the comments from the purists anyway. Might as well take off in a totally different direction and desing your own supercar. (But please!.....NO Volkswagen based kit cars!!!)
     
  17. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
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    Pete
    Exactly, totally agree and applaud. On top of this it shows you can come up with something yourself!

    George, your car and your money ...

    best
    Pete
     
  18. Argento839

    Argento839 F1 Veteran

    Oct 21, 2005
    9,103
    Steve, sounds like a great project but I would be heartbroken if you went with anything other than a Ferrari engine. I think I know where you can find one...
     
  19. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    yes, it is going to be a replicar and i have no intent to try and fool anyone. i am also prepared to take "the slings and arrows of outragous" purists.. i did give considerable thought of putting a ferrari engine in but my budget would not allow it. also i want a car i can just go out and drive whenever i want and not have to worry about an aging v12 under the hood. anyhow thanks for the vote of confidence. [email protected] george
     
  20. fastback33

    fastback33 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2004
    1,851
    I agree with what was said above. Don't make a replica, but make something totally new, yet embodies the same ideaology of the past cars. Seen this guy?
    http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/3060000000051712.JPG?0.8594513159132889

    I think it would be cool if you did something like that. Leif has totally reinvented the hotrod imho. Chip foose is good but this guy has ideas! Btw put a ferrari engine in it!!
     
  21. Randy Forbes

    Randy Forbes Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2006
    741
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Sports Cars Plus,LLC
    Looks like a Volvo motif on the grill; you suppose it's a safety hotrod?
     
  22. fastback33

    fastback33 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2004
    1,851
    The guy worked for volvo i think. Therefore used it as a theme for this car.

    If your interested google: Leif tufvesson.
     

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