My hair is starting to thin, what to do?

Mike, if someone asked me what to recommend to use I would agree that the most "sure thing" is Propecia. Of all the things I have tried it is the best. But you cannot blame people for wanting to find an alternative. A natural alternative especially. Such a desire is quite common these days.

So I will agree with you that it is quite effective, but I will disagree that the side effects are that rare. I had side effects shortly after starting it that went away 2 weeks after stopping it, so I know what happened. Am I the "1%"? No. It's much more than that.

Is anything not FDA approved effective? You say no. You must then believe that if something's not FDA approved, then it has no effect on your body. Ya, right. I'm not even gonna waste my time on that one.

But these are the *facts* about Propecia:

Side effects occur in MORE than 1% of people:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=39973=85aa103ed1451fd7af343b8cf86dcaf0

Some people are downright articulate about it:
http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=20788&name=PROPECIA

Some even go to the trouble of starting specific websites about their displeasure:
http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/

And some would say the effects of it don't go away after quitting the product:
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/

So before you beat anyone and everyone up for looking for an alternative, perhaps you should become a little more familiar with the downside of the drug you're promoting, and have a little sensitivity for those who neither want to take the same risks you do, nor have the same experience with the drug you did.

Regards,
Wes

 

I don't blame someone for wanting to find a "natural" alternative, but what is "natural"? Cocaine is natural but it's pretty bad for you and tea tree oil has a lot of nasty side effects too. People should solve a hair loss problem with research and targeted solutions to the problem. Trying something because someone knows someone who said it worked for their cousin's nephew will not be helpful. And woe is the person who pursues such remedies in leiu of something that works - like Propecia.

No, it's not "much more than 1%". The study below is junk (see below)

Where did I say that if something is not FDA approved, it has no effect on the body? The difference between FDA approved for a given use and not FDA appoved for a given use, is two factors. One is effectiveness and the other is safety. Some things may be unsafe but effective, and would not be FDA approved. Other things may be safe and ineffective and not approved. Or they may be unsafe and ineffective. It's like laser hair removal. Tons of "labs" and "doctors" were touting how lasers *will* permanently remove hair. But when it was submitted to the FDA it turns out that the claims were not true and they had to resort to claiming a premanent reduction, because laser hair removal is not as effective as was claimed. The FDA does not care about much other than if something works and if it's safe. To think that there is some over the counter medication out there that will stop hair loss, but is not FDA approved is silly. There are drug companies spending billions on this. A pill or ointment that reversed hair loss would be a commercial bombshell. Guys would pay $10/day for that if it really worked. Anything that worked - natural or not - would be commercialized instantly.

Facts? Did you read your link? It's pretty harshly criticized in that very thread. Merck had thousands of men enrolled in their study. This group had ~470 men in their study. They gave no information on the statistics of the group (height, weight, age, testosterone levels, etc). The numbers claimed in the first post are absolute numbers, not in comparison to placebo. If you look into the numbers, 12.2% of the guys on the *placebo* reported impotence and 5.7% reported decreased libido. In addition, the numbers in that post are for finasteride which is used in 2 doses, 1mg for hair loss and 5mg for prostate problems. The numbers at the top to not distinguish between the two doses, which, uhhh, is quite important. Furthermore, Merck's study was for *thousands* of men, not ~470 men, and they performed the trials under strict guidelines and with good test practices. Your link above in no way disputes the side effect rate in users of finasteride when compared to Merck's exhaustive studies.

Some of the "side effects of propecia" that people are complaining about are

-Beer gut
-Gray circles under the eyes
-Panic attacks
-Memory loss
-Joint pain
-Weight gain
-Weight loss
-Diarrhea
-Constipation

And a lot more. Many of the side effects listed are not even things that are side effects from Propecia. So maybe Propecia is like crack and you will die from it? Or maybe some of those folks posting are blaming everything that happened in the year they took it or whatever on the drug? Which is more likely? There are also people who believe brain tumors are caused by cell phones, despite lots of tests and lots of data and no data to support it. Like I said, facts and strict testing methods are what counts - not someone saying "oh I took that and my arm fell off" or "I bathed in salt and grew 8 inches and lost 45lbs and came out of the tub 10 years younger". You have to take coincidence out of the picture and focus on actual results and the Merck study does just that. The website above does not.

If the sife effect rate is 1.5% as Merck states, and if tens of millions of people take Propecia, that means that there are hundreds of thousands of people who DID experience side effects. But you cannot look at a website where there are even a few hundred people talking about their experience and extrapolate that to mean Merck was lying about incidence of side effects. You can only rely on the hard data. And the FDA are pretty hard-core about numbers and data and strict controls. There is no BSing them - you show the data and that's that. So I have no doubt that there are hundreds of thousands of people who had side effects and out of that group I bet there are hundreds or maybe thousands who'se side effects did not go away quickly or even not at all. You also have a chance of being hit by lightning, or having an unknown reaction to shellfish or penicillin or getting in a car accident, etc, etc. All you can do is play the numbers and make the best choice possible.

But if you want to claim Mercks study is wrong, you will need to provide information that is at least as authorotative as their study - not a site where people blame every ailment from gray circles under their eyes and diarrhea on their use of Propecia.

Don't be so sensitive. You know I am all about facts and data, Wes. I am not beating anyone up and nor do I intend to come across that way, but if someone is going to make stuff up and spout BS then I am going to speak up, especially when I know what a big issue this is for many guys and how it affects them. Anyone who has had bad luck with Propecia should try something else. Like Rogaine or Avodart or something. If those don't work, well, they are pretty much SOL because none of these homeopathic things work. But if someone has not tried Propecia, it is foolish for anyone to suggest they skip it and try something organic/natural because it won't work and they will just waste time and money when they could be doing something that will work. Everything has side effects - go look up the side effects for Advil - they sound pretty scary too, but if it only affects a small % of people, it's possibly a worthwhile risk to take away pain (and many people agree). There is no shortage of people out there who will tell you that the drug companies exist in cahoots with the "medical establishment" to keep you sick and keep you coming back as a customer. Blah blah blah to those folks. All that matters are cold hard facts and those are given out in clinical trials and those clinical trails show that around 1.5% of men have side effects with Propecia.

 

I didnt feel like waiting for 6 months to see how well the propecia worked and there were excellent Drs available in LA so I jumped the gun a little

Instead of doing surgery as soon as I did you could just take propecia for a year and see how it works

 

Not my field , but I would rather look like Kojak and be able to "perform", than to look like Fabio and be nuetered.

 

Boy, you weren't kiddin'!
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I understand, but the question was rhetorical. My point really was that just because they say it works on a lot of people, doesn't mean that it works to the extent that some people want or need. And for those, what then?

There are products which give even better results for some people than just using Propecia. Many people use Propecia and Rogaine for just that reason.

 

Absolutely.... if I had suffered the side effects from Propecia, I would definitely stop taking it.

Luckily only around 1.5% of guys have those effects, and the vast majority of that 1.5% go back to normal (although the hair falls out again) when they stop taking Propecia. Avodart is being tested for hair loss - it works a bit differently although many report the same side effects. I imagine in the not-too-distant future we may be using combinations or something to treat hair loss. It can only get better from where we are now

 

Nobody said it works to the extend that everyone wants or needs. The simple fact is that it regrows hair in around 45% of men who take it, and it stops hair loss in around 45% of men who take it, and it does nothing in around 10% of men who take it.

If one is in the 45% for whom it regrows hair (like I am), and if you "caught it" early enough, you can return to looking like you did before you ever lost any hair, as I did. If you are in the 45% for whom it stops loss, then you could get transplants and use Propecia to stop any further loss, or you could try Rogaine or perhaps Avodart.

But if someone is not getting any success with Propecia, the things to try are Avodart/Rogaine. Using saw palmetto, salt baths, herbal remedies, homeopathic cures and all that will do precisely nothing and give a 100% chance of failure. If there is no study or clinical trial, it's BS.

 

Been taking propecia and it has stop my hair from thinning... now i am waiting for more hair to grow

Good advice .. take propecia.. it works.. atleast for me

 

Where do I get the Propecia stuff?

 

It didn't do anything for me in that area, till I added Provillus to my regimen. Now the sides are fuller than ever.

 

I think Mike sells the stuff.

Seriously, I think you need a prescription and will need to get it from a Pharmacist.

 

Provillus did nothing for you - it is a scam product. If you noticed an increase in hair when you took it, it was likely the Propecia that did it but just hadn't "kicked in" yet.

There are zero studies to support Provillus doing anthing, and plenty studies that prove it does nothing, and the advertising that they do is contrary to what they are allowed to do by the FDA. It is sold by shysters who prey on guys who will try anything.

Anyone thinking that Provillus does anything for hair loss should keep in mind that the company that makes Provillus also makes breast enlargement pills, weight loss pills, "male enhancement" pills and pretty much any other scam type of pill out there.

Look at their "return policy" - they require you fill out an "application" for an RMA number on their website, and if they approve it then you have 15 days to return the product. They say "you can try it at no risk withour RMA policy!". Well, read the fine print - they charge you ~$180 (+shipping) for a 6 months supply and you use 2 bottles per month. They charge a "restocking fee" of $10 per bottle. Well DUH - they sold the bottles to you for $15/ea and they are charging you $10/ea to return them. So bottom line, they get their money either way.

Why would any company selling a legitimate product have such an insane return policy? Answer - because it doesn't work, and they will do whatever possible to discourage returns by making it difficult, and also to ensure that, even if you return it, they still get your money.

Provillus is a scam product, given a "medical" sounding name to make it seem legit. It is sold using claims that are not allowable under FDA rules, and their claimed return policy is a scam also.

Anyone who is unsure of this should do a search on google and see what customers say. The people who say it works either sell the stuff, or are victim of the placebo effect, or are just wishfully thinking (hoping) it's going to work for them. It doesn't. The ingredient is just saw palmetto which you can buy on it's own at a vitamin store, and at least when it doesn't work you won't have to jump through hoops to get 30% of your money back

 

well, for me.. so long as it stopped dropping.. i am jumping for joy!!!

maybe in a few months, i would be able to let you know

PRAY for me!!!
lol

 

I have used Proscar (AKA Propecia) for 8 years before adding Provillus, so I know dam well what it does.

I've used it, you haven't. That's the bottom line.

 

well, I did it again.

Had 1250 grafts placed yesterday, this will probably be the last time to do this since I am running out of donor site hair. Should look good in the spring whae it starts growing in. Looks like a bloody pulpy piece of &*@# now

 

shave it all off

 

Been taking propecia for a month...so far zero side effects...will be interesting to see if there is any regrowth...but will be thankful if this stops my thining. I have the type of thining that is very slow...but definitely would get worse over the next 5 years if I did nothing.

 

This has been an especially tough one. I had 4 scalp reductions between 91 and 93 and about 4 transplant sessions from 92 until 97. Then the one yeaterday.

I have the tightest scalp in the world now. I am afraid to sneeze because it feels like I may tear the back of my head open

 

I'm surprised they can operate 9 times!

 

After having skimmed through this thread, I'm never again going to wonder why a woman would ever want breast implants.

Although I think I will break the mold and not worry about my MPB, or the shocking rate that my not old follicles decided to go silver and not black. I will break the mold and have breast implants put into my head.

 

Me too judging by the way my scalp feels this morning.

 

If the mods give me permission I'll post some pics of 1 day post op

 

I want to see. Thanks.