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Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Napolis, Apr 18, 2005.

  1. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Hang on a minute, Jim ....
    This doesn't quite 'gel'. Marcel's photos, of the bodywork being delivered, in England, were taken in 1974.
    Now we all agree there are mistakes in Barchetta ....
    But take a look at: http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/0854.412P.htm
    If it is #0858's (modified) rear bodywork that is currently fitted to #0854, what did Chris Chord / Steve Earle use for a tail clip in 1969 ?
    69 - Chris Cord, USA, repaired car into spyder configuration, for very exotic and fast street use in the West Coast
    The next reference to a restoration is not till 1983. Is this when this tail section was fitted then ?
    83/oct - Harley Cluxton, Scottsdale, AZ, USA - Grand Touring Cars; cosmetic restoration
     
  2. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Paul
    The spyder tail now on 0854 is stamped 0858. (We'll see about the nose which you surmise is as well) If this is 0858's tail, based on Prova # 53 going to Piper wouldn't this be the tail that is now on 0854? Sourced through David at some point?
    Cheers
     
  3. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    It is for #0848, Jim. Don't forget that apart from vaguaries in manufacture, these cars were all modified to some extent by their team owners. These could have been added by Scuderia Filipinetti, in an effort to extract warm air from the cockpit - say for the Targa Florio event.
    Staffan tells me that his drawing of the 412P was based on #0848, and he has the Christian Huet P3/412 book (Cavalleria #11). Check out the photos on pages 79 and 86, which clearly show them.

    Regarding our other recent (offline) conversation:
    While you've got the book out, Jim, please note also, the photo on page 84, which clearly shows that the carbs' cold air ducting on #0848 is integral to the rear bodywork, with the RH (off)side of the carburettor airbox on the engine left open to marry up to it. Not how #0854's cold air is currently ducted. (This is also done virtually the same way on both #0850 and #0844, although these cars both carry later 'repro' rear bodywork).
     
  4. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    No doubt, Jim. My question was simply "when ?" I had been assuming 1969 (not post -74).
     
  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    I prefer not to say which chassis is underneath those body parts (in the Piper-Meade England 1974 photos). But I can tell you that it is a chassis number used before #0820 (lower than 0820). No relation to a P2, P3 or P4.

    The rear body part shown in my photos most probably comes from 0858, based on the Prova number MO 53.
    Marcel Massini
     
  6. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    Thank you for confirming our earlier suspicions, Marcel.
     
  7. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    #432 P4Replica, May 13, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In reference to Jims earlier question, and my reply ....
    For those without access to Cavalleria #11 - a small partial scan from page 86, showing the vents in question - with thanks to Staffan Berggren.
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  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks. I can't make them out on 0854. Do you? Roof Vents?
    Re Carb/tail Any period shots of 0854 that show how it was done? 0844 and 0848 (P3) were build before 0850 and 0854 (412P) maybe they were different. (As you point out 0850 doesn't have original body so it could be wrong as it is today)

    Cheers

    Marcel
    Thanks!
     
  9. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Jim....

    Now that you have 2 P cars, the Lola and MKIV clearly you are much closer to restaging LeMans in '67. Congratulations!

    But, I see a serious delima building. You have promised the wife not to race. You own racecars. You need to restage a race.

    Hmmmmmm Racecars? Check. Racetracks? Check. Race Drivers? ???????

    So, in an effort to help out a friend, I offer my race driving skills! By end of this summer I will have racing licenses from SCCA, HSR, PCA and NASA. I will be racing my Porsche '74 RSR clone (375hp and 2100lb). I am a good/safe/fast driver.

    Just let me know when and where and we can put whichever one of those P cars you want at the front of the pack!

    ;)

    All kidding aside, wouldnt any racedriver sacrifice their left gonad for the chance to peddle one of these cars around the track a bit??????



    Terry
     
  10. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    No, I can't either, Jim. Suspect that these are something unique to #0848.
    Somewhere .... Jim - in my collection of books and magazine articles on P4/412P's, I know I have seen just the shot. It's a B&W photo of #0854 with the rear engine cover raised, taken from the offside rear. I'm sure it was taken at Spa (in the rain) in '67. I'm wracking my brains trying to remember where I saw it. Will have a good look over the weekend.
     
  11. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Very MUCH!!!
     
  12. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    :)
     
  13. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    I think at least part of that is an illusion, created by the angle of the photo.
     
  14. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    There is some of that but 0846 has a P3 nose and 0856 (?) has a P4 nose and they are a bit different.

    Best
     
  15. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
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    Jim.
    I beleieve that #0844 and #0848 had (has) the 3 vents in the roof.
    Haven´t seen it on any other car though.
    Best: Staff
     
  16. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    #441 P4Replica, May 14, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
    Paul...great pictures...which reminds me of something. (This is a bit outside).
    Some years ago I travelled with a friend in his AUDI (???)
    We were going on an open road...on a warm summers day...and he swore it could do 200 Kph...but it would only do 194 Kph. (according to the speedometer) Until he closed the small
    vent on the roof...then in fact we reached 205 Kph.
    So much for AERO-effect.
    I beleieve that the vents on the old cars was designed in another way.
    Best: Staffan.
     
  18. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    Yes, Staffan - they appear to have been stamped inwards (towards the cockpit). Better for extracting warm air, but not so good for lower speeds, when, in the rain, they probably would have allowed water to drip down the driver's neck !

    If you want to make that other post about #0854 - I'll upload the photo for you - with a possible explanation. ;)
     
  19. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
    #0854 at Spa-Francorchamps...1967 05 01
    The vents or slots...just in front of the right rear-wheel...should have 5 slots/vents.
    But the second from above...seems to be plugged or 3 or 4 small holes drilled.
    Why is that?
    Staff.
     
  20. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    #445 P4Replica, May 14, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    #446 P4Replica, May 14, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Remember these, Staffan ?
    .... On the P3's at Le Mans, in '66 ? O.K., so they were on the opposite side, and a little lower down - and of course #0854 wasn't completed in '66, either - But it's possible that the factory had made provision for fitting them (on both sides) to #0854 for the '67 Le Mans event.
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  22. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    Jim.
    Note the plain gold-painted wheels used on #0854 at Spa (in the photo in post #445) - the light blue painted outer rims (that we discussed earlier) were added for Le Mans by the factory, to help with easy identification of any loose / spare wheels.
     
  23. s_eric09

    s_eric09 Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2004
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    Man,

    such a beautiful car every time and every way you look at it!

    no wonder you are obsessed with it paul.. hehe

    Cheers

    George.
     
  24. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Thanks!
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #450 Napolis, May 14, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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