My NGT Disaster | FerrariChat

My NGT Disaster

Discussion in '360/430' started by mikegr, Dec 21, 2012.

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  1. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    415
    Europe
    So i bought a used Tubi NGT. I went ro the garage. We shut off the electric switch. We swap the OEM exhaust with the Tubi. We turn it on and let it work at idle for 4-5 minutes. We scanned the whole car. No errors. The result:
    Car sounds bad, some black some under heavy accelaration and the worst: performs terrible and i got a slow down at higher speeds...This is one of the worst days of my life, i feel desperate and dipressed...
     
  2. thoang

    thoang Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 12, 2004
    1,990
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Tuan Hoang
    Step back for a sec. It's not one the worst day of your life. Just put the stock exhaust back on. Since the NGT is really loud, why not go with straight pipes? I'll cost you a few hundred bucks (USD).
     
  3. voicey

    voicey Formula 3

    Jul 29, 2009
    1,193
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Aldous Voice
    Firstly, I wish the worse day in my life was just filled with car trouble!

    Secondly, I cannot see why changing the exhaust would cause rough running and error codes (provided you plugged up the vacuum hoses that control the exhaust valves).
     
  4. F-Nut

    F-Nut Karting

    Nov 30, 2008
    206
    Farmington, MI
    Full Name:
    Bill
    If having a very minor problem with your FERRARI is the worst day of your life, then you're doing pretty good.

    Also, since you bought the system used, you can probably sell it for what you paid for it or at least pretty close.

    Go put your stock exhaust back on, and shop around for exactly what you want. There are plenty of youtube videos to listen to for exhaust options on your 360.

    Good luck.
     
  5. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    415
    Europe
    I was expecting that day so much. And finally it came the opposite...What if i put the oem back on? Will the car get back to normal?
    About the vacuum hoses were disconnected on the OEM exhaust so valves were permanently open. It was sounded great...
     
  6. Jagbuff

    Jagbuff Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,267
    Site of US F1 Race!
    Full Name:
    Franck
    ...comparing to what some of the folks in your country are going through, your worst day is probably their dream day... The exhaust alone will not cause the problem you described, your garage forgot to plug something back in properly, maybe a Lambda sensor which is causing the ecu to go to a default fuel map...
     
  7. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    415
    Europe
    i will check this too although we didnt mess with stock cats
     
  8. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
    Full Name:
    David
    1+
     
  9. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    415
    Europe
    When we turn on the engine for the first time, it was sound like heaven and rev was good. When i started driving on open road noticed the car didnt run properly. When i turn it on again one hour ago it hardly ignited, without that usual booming sound at the ignition time. I know these cars are complicated but didnt expect so much failure from a routine modification
     
  10. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 11, 2001
    6,448
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    Dino
    If this is one of the worst days of your life, you need some real problems. Perhaps you have the answer to Greece's fiscal mess.

    Just put the old unit back on and have a better day, and/or check all the connections! :)
     
  11. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    415
    Europe
    I was told by a 355 owner that the engine may simply not adapt the new exhaust. Is it possible?
     
  12. since-15

    since-15 Formula 3

    Nov 26, 2008
    1,142
    Something must have shaken loose or not plugged in correctly. Check and recheck installation procedure.
     
  13. voicey

    voicey Formula 3

    Jul 29, 2009
    1,193
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Aldous Voice
    There are no sensors in the exhaust system beyond the cats. The only thing that could remotely cause a problem is the vacuum lines that operate the valves in the standard exhaust and even then these will only throw a code.

    I suspect your rough running is due to another issue.
     
  14. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jan 28, 2007
    2,509
    Somewhere, anywhere
    Full Name:
    Eddie B
    Try resetting battery switch. Could have poor contacts inside.
    Or your "new" exhaust is full of someone else's bits of dead cat, partially blocking it...
     
  15. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    415
    Europe
    #15 mikegr, Dec 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Maybe...
    Nightmare continues:
    After a sleepless night i go to my garage. I try several times to start the car but no result. I reset the car. Finally i get it on with a huge cloud of white smoke. Idle is quite unstable. After it warms up a bit it gets smoother on running so i start driving to my mechanic. Car sounds still ugly, low torque on midrange. I get there to have all things checked again on Monday morning.
    Here is a pic of the exhaust
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    415
    Europe
  17. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2012
    794
    Cheshire UK
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Just a quick check. The RH thermocouple has a kink in the braided cable. You may have damaged it during the installation.

    Slow down light is linked to cat temp.

    Measure the resistance from the RH thermocouple ECU under the engine cover and check there is continuity.
     
  18. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2012
    794
    Cheshire UK
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    PS was that the NGT that sold on eBay a couple of weeks back?
     
  19. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    415
    Europe
    #19 mikegr, Dec 22, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
    Yes 900 pounds shipped

    If the wire is the problem, shouldnt be a warning light? What about the fact that the car was running fine at the first minutes and gradually got worse?
     
  20. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2012
    794
    Cheshire UK
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Mike, I don't know enough about how the cat temp ECU interfaces with the system. It was just something that showed in the picture and is linked to the 'slow down' warning.

    As Voicey said earlier the exhaust valves are not used on this system so have you capped the ends of the vacuum pipes that feed them? Otherwise there will also be an air leak downstream of the MAFs as the vacuum feed comes of the inlet plenum.
     
  21. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    415
    Europe
    The exhaust valves were disconnected long time ago and were uncapped since then, Car was running pretty strong and smooth, never had any issue
     
  22. Spider360Matt

    Spider360Matt Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2012
    595
    California
    i run the NGT with Fabspeed straight pipes...Ive been running it for a year without any problem and I love the sound - especially above 5000 rpm. nice little performance gain too!

    As everyone said, your problem is almost certainly related to an error during installation that is not related to the NGT set up. I would also find that kink in the TC wire highly suspect. In fact, if they are original (color is yellow vs. blue I think) then its high time that they were changed anyway. Also the ECM design isnt the greatest and they can fail as well - moving things around during install likely gave a brittle part the necessary encouragement to fail and now it is showing its wear.

    I would troubleshoot the basics before going to the trouble of putting the stock exhaust back - these cars just require that extra level of attention with any move you make.

    good luck!
     
  23. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jan 28, 2007
    2,509
    Somewhere, anywhere
    Full Name:
    Eddie B
    If you leave the valves uncapped you will have a cel and an excessive self-learn adaptive value. If your tech says this is not the case it's likely to be an electrical (battery v+ or cut off resistance issue) problem. I doubt a kink in the heavily shielded exhaust temp sensor would result in this fault, for a start an issue here would cause at least, a slow down, 4 dead cylinders( without any kind of smoke!) and likely a CEL.
    It sounds like poor diagnosis of a simple problem......
     
  24. mikegr

    mikegr Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2012
    415
    Europe
    So you think that the fact the car was running good initialy and got worse by the time is owned to the excessive self-learn adaptive value caused by uncapped vacuum pipes?
     
  25. Spider360Matt

    Spider360Matt Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2012
    595
    California
    He got the slow down light post set up. While the kink alone wont cause a fault (maybe) if those parts are old and they were moved around, the heat makes them brittle enough to break and cause a fault. Reading the CEL should show what threw the code....and that should narrow it down to this being the cause or something else. They are at the very least problematic and prone to failure.

    I agree he should block the vacuum hoses to avoid a CEL but the slow down light wont cause that. Plus if it blinks I don't think it shuts down the cylinder bank like you describe. With my own experiences, it was the solid slow down light that caused that effect.
     

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