My nightmare buying experience with BHCC/Andy Cohen

Sorry to hear about you experience.... You think that when throwing down 6- figure amounts for high end cars, they would bend over backwards to please you, and it wouldnt be so hard.

~ go figure.

Glad to hear its all taken care of though.

 

Two friends of mine worked for a Beverly Hills exotic car sales company in the '80's. The company did well for years selling everything from Rolls to Ferrari...until the owner got behind the eight ball. He was taking cars on consignment, selling them and using the money for his personal debts, then telling the sellers that the cars hadn't sold yet and stalling them as long as possible. Jail time for that guy.
Things crashed when he was arrested and the company was closed down.
I've seen this happen in the construction industry too. A general contractor gets paid, then doesn't pay his subs because he usedsthe money to pay of other debts. He then takes another job right away just to get some cash flow to pay the subs from the job before, etc. Then bankruptcy.
A developer once diverted a payment to my construction company for over $200,000 into his personal account in Aspen "temporarily". Fortunately I recovered the money through his partner. They went bankrupt eventually.
I also knew of a succesful Realtor that was doing big business in Boulder. He spent more than he made though, so he illegaly took funds held in escrow accounts to pay personal debts. He got upside down to the tune of hundreds of thousands before it all crashed. He filed bankruptcy and visited the DA more than once.
It can be real dangerous when business owners have access to other people's money and get tempted to use it "temporarily" for the wrong things.
If what you said is true about this guy at BHCC you probably weren't the only one this has happened too. It's only a matter of time..............

 

When I think about the "potential" for what could've happened, that is a very scary story. I'm glad to hear that you got the situation taken care of, though, and with little incident. Your warning re: BHCC is duly noted.....

 

You learned a valuable lesson. Never buy an exotic unless you see the title. For all you know that car could have been stolen. A friend of mine got bit by a high end dealer in AZ. They sold him a stolen car, and explained the reason for the delay in recieving a titile was due to the inefficient DMV in CA. They took his money, bought more cars, trips to vegas etc. Eventually it fell apart, when the sheriffs showed up after people had cars repo'd . In the end, many people lost money and the cars they thought they bought in good faith.


With high end cars, people put them out on consignment, use them for collateral on loans...seems a clean title is the exception and not the norm.

Glad it worked out for you.

MB

 

I also bought a 2004 Spider from Andy in Dec of 03 took delivery in Jan 04.
Now I had some paper with a local bank. So I knew someone was crossing the t's and dotting the I's. But even still it took almost three months for me to get the paperwork nessesary to properply register the car.

More the finance company and the bank slacking. Andy has been around Ferrari's and hight end stuff for a long time. He did a good job for me and sold me a loaded car at a fair price at the time. He was a bit harder to get a hold of once the deal was done. That's life.

What happened to you should not have happened no question. Sounds like your ass was in the wind for a bit. Glad he made things right. I have heard all kinds of stories like this. Car dealers are bad some times Super car dealers... well you can guess the rest. How's the car? Enjoying it I hope.

I have 5k on mine drive it as much as I can.

 

as a buyer and a seller, i always review the title and the service records before viewing the car. a gentleman is coming to see my 308 tomorrow, he thanked me before we got off the phone as i insisted when we meet that we sit down and read the reciepts and service records before i even open the shop up. to me this works both ways for both parties as you can assure the buyer that you are representing the car properly, and that there are no stories or issues when the money changes hands and the car is titled and insured by the new owner.

some folks get so excited over a car purchase,the LAST thing they do is hand over money and then see the title / registration papers, usually while they are trying to load the car or arrange transport! THAT is a BIG mistake. papers first, always. i have walked away from a bunch of cars that had paperwork issues, even though the cars themselves seemed fine.

thank you for sharing this experience with us. i have another name on my list of who NOT to buy from . ditto goes for the transporters who do crappy work as well. i want to know who they are as i will not reccommend them to those in my network. Fchat rules !

 

What did Andy say to you after the truth was exposed?

 

It can be a franchised dealer that does this too. Anyone know the story about the crook that owned the Ferrari dealership in the bay area that went tits up? My friend lost TWO Ferraris in that one.

 

There are lessons to be learned here. Here's some guidelines I always follow when buying any used car whether from a dealer or private seller.

1. Sir, are you the owner and do you have the title in hand?

2. Are there any liens?

If it is not local, I want a fax or email pic of the title, both sides. Typically, if a dealer took a car in trade, they pay off the loan, if any, and get the title in hand. If they have not, beware!

I make it clear that when I pay for the car, I want the title delivered to me on the spot. No title, no money. If you are borrowing for the car, your financier will get the title.

Dave

 

So where is the CA dealer bashing that usually happend with Florida dealers?

 

Another Ferrari "bought and sold" without the title. Is it just Ferrari guys or is it common for people to hand over 5 and 6 figure checks for a car and not get the title???

We've heard this story a lot in this group. Call me weird, but if I didn't get the title right there and then, no one would get my check. I'd say, "Get the title and you can have my money". If they said they'd sell the car to someone else, that would be fine with me.

Ken

 

Ken:
that is unrealistic in some cases. If you buy from a reputable dealer you have nothing to worry about. Further if you know the car is leased or financed you can get a pay-off from the bank and send them the check and get the title and pay the seller the difference.

Having no title is not the worst thing. Dealing with a dishonest carsalesman is what really should get you going.

 

Did you know of "Prince Frank" back in the 80's? He was a European "Art" dealer from Moncaco living in Beverly Hills. He bought a green Rolls convertible from my friend working at the Beverly Hills car dealership I mentioned above. He said he was part of the royal family, etc. He sold the big stuff like Renoir. Matisse, Picasso, etc.
One night we took him out to a club called Vertigo in LA, and my friend and I were starting to wonder if the guy was legit....something seemed "off". Next thing you know in walks Princess Stephanie, she sees the "Prince" and walks right over and gives him a big hug.
OK, so maybe he is for real.
A couple of months later he makes the front page of the LA times, "Art Dealer arrested for selling forgeries". He was selling fake art in the 6 figures.
He made some big time enemies, I don't know where he is now.
Not the same thing as a car dealer getting behind and "borrowing", but it shows that you have to be careful with big dollar purchases.

 

I am glad there was information posted about this dealer, as I had no idea BHCC had things like this going on now or in the past.

I did similar to get the word out about a dealer (FJ MB) that had really done me wrong. Anyone see my car with the lemons outside the dealership in Newport Beach?

It's suprising to hear that the DMV was in fact prompt and helpful. In the end, at least it worked out for you.

 

Martin,

Not every California dealer uses client's money as flooring. Some of them have not yet taken the Florida Dealer Education classes that show you how to do it .

All kidding aside....reputation, reputation, reputation. Track record is the best resource for future transactions. BHCC unfortuantely tarnished his reputation and the end result will hurt him 10 fold.

thanks for sharing.

Mario

 

You guys are scaring me off the Mexican 330 GTC on eBay.



http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52292





Thanks.

 

i don't know anything about this dealership and i have no prior experience w/ them but your situation is simply UNACCEPTABLE.

 

No Title No Money!!!!!! Period!!!!!

 

There you go, pretty simple, really.

 

Unfortunate situation, but glad things worked out - thanks for sharing. Interestingly, BHCC in general - and Andy Cohen specifically - have a fairly strong reputation on the West Coast, and amongst forum members. I'm a little too lasy to search, but I remember others have posted their positive experiences with him here. Additionally, I know that Andy himself has posted on this board, so I'm assume he'll be notified of this and weigh in. I'd be curious to hear what he has to say. I, myself, have never interacted with either Andy, or anybody else from BHCC.

I agree you protect yourself if you buy a car from somebody who has the title free and clear in their possession (like me ), BUT as the price point of even entry-level Ferrari's start to hit the $200K+ mark, I think we'll find more and more cars that are being leased, as owners look to put their money to generate higher yielding rate of returns elsewhere. In a lease, the lessor - which in most cases is your bank - holds the title. One's mentality, therefore, should not necessarily be "no title no money," but rather, it should be to confirm who and where the title resides, and whether that can be transferred willingly to the new buyer.

 

Ghost is dead on - many many many (no matter how much money they have) will finanace with their bank or at a minimum transact through their bank for money transfers - which the banks will hold the title. One of the best protection you can have against this type of Title issue - is let your bank handle the transaction - trust me in this - if your bank handles the transaction and they don't get the title pretty much the next day - you should see what happens - the large banks do not mess around - and their vested intrest is their money and you (since it is your money). Your banks, when financing will also have protection against this as well - if they handle the transaction...

Once you start to talk about monies over 20K - I would not even consider not transacting (my cash or financed) through a bank..

 

Whenever used cars are being traded there are several parties involved - not least of whom are the seller, the buyer and the the middleman. Banks are also involved where they have financed the seller in his original purchase, leasing companies who own an interest in the asset, and there are also sometimes co-owners, such as a spouse soon to become an ex-spouse or a business partner where the car was orininally acquired in a business.

All of these combinations can be present when the seller consigns his car with an agent such as Andy Cohen at BHCC. Now it's hard enough to make a living selling relatively scarce commodities. It's not like you can call the local food wholesaler and order more Kellogs Corn Flakes for your grocery store because demand seems to picking up. Dealers like BHCC rely on consignors -people wanting to sell their cars in an appropriate environment in order to get inventory to show to their prospective customers. They often have to rely on the promises of their consignors regarding the financial condition of the car. Does it have a lien on it? Does anyone else have a claim? is anyone else offering it for sale?

I have bought several cars from dealers. It's almost standard practice that you hand over the money and then take possession of the car. The title usually follows later, when the seller gets his money and signs the release on the title. If a bank is holding the title, the original owner has to pay off the loan in order to get the title back from the bank.

If the dealer has sufficient working capital he can ensure that the transaction with the bank happens before the sale and he therefore can have title in hand when he sells the car. A perfect world scenario. What usually happens more often than not with consigned cars is that the dealer has to firm up the deal on the buyer's side before he begins the process to get the title.

Getting the title from the bank may sometimes (especially with high value cars) be linked to other obligations of the seller and the mere repayment of the car loan may not be enough to immediately get the title back from the bank.

I have known Andy for a long time and I have purchased two cars from him. Similar cars actually - a 308 and a 308 on steroids (F40). Huge price differences and in the case of the F40 the title took a few weeks. But the important thing is that I had the car and a clear trail of the transaction. The best safeguard I had in dealing with Andy is that he has been around a very long time, has a good thriving business and reputation, and that he had a lot more to lose than what he would gain by stiffing the seller.

I understand your anxiety, but you're buying a used car with a high value. If you don't have confidence in the process, then follow everyone's advice in this thread and demand to see the title before you hand over your money. You'll be safer financially but you will also have to pass on good cars that are too expensive for the dealer to bridge the cash required.

My advice is to know who you are dealing with and to make your decisions based on the reputation of the dealer.

I have a list of people I wouldn't deal with even if they had the title delivered to me pending my payment and then there are those guys I trust who I will park money with while they look for a car that I want.