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My personal concerns about the 458 v 488 poll

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Randyslovis, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Randyslovis

    Randyslovis Formula Junior
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    Jul 7, 2011
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    Randall J Slovis
    There is currently a thread on 458 v 488. Old news, right?
    To me there is an underlying concern about the results as it might bear on Ferrari Chat's relevancy to the Ferrari community. For the purposes of this thread's reason, please ignore your personal favorite. It really is irrelevant for what I am trying to bring up/figure out.

    Allow me to digress. My buddy who has multiple cars including a Speciale, GT3 Touring, old M5, also has a 1995 991 typ 993. Car has trouble passing inspection due to some stupid CEL that old cars of this genre throw. A guy on Rennlist (Porsche's F-chat) described how to eliminate said issue with no harm to environment or the car itself. Apparently it is some electronic glitch that a certain driving cycle eliminates. My buddy did as instructed and the OBD said car fine at inspection.

    This kind of useful info is what this forum can give owners or prospective owners. Same as someone who has put many miles on any version of Ferrari - or other marque - and then brings contrasts and comparisons in his/her driving experience. Or, someone who has logged many miles on a particular model can shed insight into what might or has gone right/wrong.

    The people posting can have differences of opinions. I hope they do. I love that. Hopefully, however, they will include reasons for their opinion. My favorite on a thread I once read here was something to the effect of "although I have never driven one, I know it is a better car." You know car A is better than car B having never driven either? WTF?

    My point is this: there haven't been more 458s than 488s built based on Ferraris production numbers. Yet, the number of postings of 488 owners coming out in support of their cars - as they could/should, or panning them, is lately conspicuous by its absence. If they came out in the same numbers as previous 360, 430 and 458 owners, I wouldn't be posing this query.

    As noted in the heated 458 v 488 thread currently up, they mention statistical error. I am going farther and saying, has Ferrari's clientele moved away from the knowledgable enthusiast being the norm to the exception. My dealer principle recently told me that >60% of his Ferrari buyers have NO IDEA what motor is in the car. WTF? #2
    So, are newer buyers unaware of this website? Are newer buyers not as "into" the sharing of opinions about their cars. Is the rapidly rising price of the cars pushing some "car guys" who would post here if they were owners out?

    My concern is that if we don't have owners who can describe their car's nuances, likes, dislikes, weak points, etc. we are left with biased sales people and writers with very little real world experience for our info.

    To be clear: is what I perceive to be a paucity of responders to the 488 indicative not of the car's strengths, but of a changing demographic in the owners Ferrari is courting? Are they trying harder than ever to only sell cars to the ones buying "the next one" in Tailor Made/Atelier guise who want to get the next one after that?
    If so, I don't think this bodes well for the community of people who might buy any Ferrari new, 2nd or 3rd hand as they have little ownership info to go on. Worse, for the marque in general, if they are selling cars predominantly to those just looking for exclusivity, when/if something better comes along, the loyal/aficionado may have long ago been priced or squeezed out of the cue.

    I have no problem being written off as completely crazy or wrong. Just throwing out a perception.

    Best
     
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  2. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Many 488 owners could have been discouraged, it's not easy debating when some people act like they are on a mission, repeating infinitely the same things without any consideration for the possible different opinions... In my case I wrote what I think, it's not because other people will repeat the sames things a thousand times that I'll do the same to keep the balance.
     
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  3. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    over 180 people voted....figure 70 to 80% of them know something about ferraris....on this board i wld hope its at least 50% - the point of my pole was gauging binary interest..
     
  4. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Jul 1, 2013
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    I wouldn't read too much into it.
     
  5. Rory breaker

    Rory breaker Karting

    Apr 17, 2017
    88
    Why is this a thread?
     
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  6. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2007
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    Maybe 488 owners aren’t here because 488s are even more reliable than past models, so why write when nothing’s wrong to be shared?


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  7. wrs

    wrs F1 Rookie
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    Jul 11, 2015
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    This is a 458 forum. It's not receptive to positive 488 reviews. Go look at past threads. The 458 owners don't like the 488 for a variety of reasons so I rarely visit this forum any longer. I suspect many 488 owners feel the same way. I am certainly not interested in participating in another 488 bashing thread started by a 458 owner.
     
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  8. Hardistyfezza

    Hardistyfezza Formula Junior

    There was the same 430 v 458 debate raging over in the 360/430 section a few years ago - ego driven bunch Ferrari owners.
     
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  9. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Let me guess, the F430 was the last real Ferrari, while the 458 had lost its soul with its artificial gearbox and its intrusive electronics :D
     
  10. xfrgtr

    xfrgtr Karting

    Jul 20, 2011
    69
    Exactly.
     
  11. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    Randy I will give you another factor: F- Chat fatigue. There are some members who constantly attack views they don't share. To go a step further, there are a few members who also make it personal and go after other members. Maybe that's how it just works out on the internet, but the natural reaction is to pull back. I have noticed an increase in sniping and petty behavior on F-Chat over the past 18 months. The administrators do address the most blatant cases, but there are many others where the behavior is done in a slightly sly and clever way where the administrators either don't see it, or don't think it rises high enough to warrant action. Never the less, this is occurring. F-Chat has lost several valued members. These members have been replaced by those with personal or policy (eg NA>turbo) agendas. If I were in charge I would be alarmed because a message board is only as good as its members and we are trading those whose agenda is the passion for Ferrari for those whose agendas are passion for their positions.
     
  12. Ash Patel

    Ash Patel Formula Junior
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    Dec 12, 2015
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    Very well stated and even as a 458 owner I have to agree and do understand that the 488 owners get's this as tiresome.

    And also good you're addressing a bigger issue here = there are members just looking for some sorts of "internet" power/position going after other members here which I have never experienced in any other car-forums so far (R8 chat for instance where I've been more or less active several years more than here). I know this is an example involving NA vs Turbo / 458 vs 488, the issue you're addressing though is very much appearing in other threads as well in the past.

    I know the mods do their best to keep this forum in good shape but one can do so much with limited resources.
     
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  13. Hardistyfezza

    Hardistyfezza Formula Junior

    Something like that

    Besides all these cars no matter what generation they hail from have a common DNA they are all Ferrari.
    And yes it’s right that as enthusiasts we celebrate our own chosen period of ownership, in the same way we don’t all live in new build houses, it’s a matter of taste - and while we might have similarities we are individuals after all.

    It’s not a cost thing for the majority and that kind of rhetoric is a little insulting to hear here in grown up forum with clearly so many financially successful contributors, hell my house was built in 1681 does that make it worth less than a new build somewhere else - no, in fact as in the car world older and more individual becomes ultimately more valuable.

    But I digress let’s remember while we might be passionate about our own period whether it’s later 458, current 488, or earlier classic we all love Ferrari or else we wouldn’t waste our clearly valuable time bickering over these ultimately pointless debates.

    I love my 458 for reasons personal to me that might happen to coincide with others, and yes I voice my opinions for fun in this sometimes on line pantomime, it’s a great forum with some great people who are always happy to help and advise. Please don’t spoil this it would be a shame to loose the spirit.

    We’re all different in circumstance but the same in passion for our love of Ferrari, and for that we all deserve the same levels of on line respect - this is indeed meant to be fun after all - otherwise why the hell do we do it!!
     
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  14. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

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    For years I never used the “ignore” feature, now I have several on it for this reason. There are a vocal minority of users that have endless energy for long-winded posts attacking and dissecting every sentence fragment. In real life conversations they would be immediately shut down, since instantaneous back and forth...but on a chat forum that can persist indefinitely without violating TOU rules.

    With regards to the 458v488 poll I think too many people are over thinking it. It is a simple poll, provides simple window into a broad response. Given the lack of information on who and why voting everything else the reader interprets is his own bias.
     
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  15. Randyslovis

    Randyslovis Formula Junior
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    I appreciate your response. I had given up Ferrari Chat for quit some time. Even stopped subscribing due to threads being hijacked, snide remarks when none had been called for (As a physician I have a thick skin for difficult people), and most frustrated by people completely missing the point of many threads/responses. I have never looked for people to agree with me. Rather, just looking for honest feedback from those with perhaps a different experience or knowledge base than me.
    Best
     
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  16. Randyslovis

    Randyslovis Formula Junior
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    Because I wanted it to be one.
     
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  17. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

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    That is precisely why I am no longer subscribed, though I was for years.
    No longer willing to pay money to have dysfunctional people and teenagers try to pick apart my comments for some personal gain.
     
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  18. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    This also happens when people here compare/debate other marques as well. In most cases people make judgements without any firsthand experience as noted by the OP.
     
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  19. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Formula 3

    Jun 10, 2016
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    At the end of the day no one is being forced to read or post here on Fchat. I also doubt anyone here is going to be missed just because they are unable to deal with certain posts from others. That's just being so self righteous its beyond pathetic. It seems some get themselves to a level of wealth or profession and then become so self righteous they feel above everything. There are plenty of times I've read posts I don't agree with. Like big deal, get over it. Nobody is forcing anyone to be here. Perhaps some shouldn't read so much into things or let certain things control their entire world. Its like holding grudges. Pointless.
     
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  20. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula 3

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    #20 Il Co-Pilota, Aug 11, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
    Agreed. It seems like the 488 cannot be mentioned anywhere, without the 458 "cult members" chiming in about how much better the 458 is, and how much the 488 is not as "pure", "raw", beautiful etc.

    I actually know people personally who is shying away from this forum and what socializing there could otherwise be had, for the exact reason you mention.

    It has gotten toxic and tiresome.
     
  21. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2017
    586
    You’re not the only one who knows people shying away, for that exact reason as well!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  22. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Formula 3

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    #22 Shadowfax, Aug 11, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
    I think in the sense of 458 vs 488 you have a point. The constant rubbishing of the 488 has got beyond old - I'd agree with that. You have the ongoing trolling from certain ex Ferrari owners who shifted to other brands because of some petty gripe they may have had at one point so by constantly criticizing the 488 and haranguing its owners is a means to get square in some pathetic way. But for all of that, that annoying behavior wouldn't detract me from subscribing or posting here as it's kind of entertaining watching them embarrass themselves. I think those packing up their bats and balls should take a deep breath or two and climb down from the high horse....pardon the pun.
     
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  23. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    This happens everytime a new model is released, it's not specific to the 458 and 488. This goes on with the 355/360, 550/575, 599/f12, f12/812, etc. Each model Ferrai makes has it's own appeal whether design, performance, tech or otherwise. I dont think you can wrong with any model but some feel the need to criticize what they dont have. Kind of silly and childish.
     
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  24. Natkingcolebasket69

    Rossa Subscribed

    I have neither car but it’s pretty clear that the 458 is a masterpiece. Sure the 488 will better but it’s like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.Anything after MJ will never surpass him. Certainly not Lebron James;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  25. gobble

    gobble Formula 3
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    #25 gobble, Aug 11, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
    If you want an interesting discussion of tips, tricks, how-to's, etc. spend time in the 355 forum. The 458/488 forum is dull as can be (unless you're into picture threads). I don't find Fchat all that interesting anymore since I've made the jump to a 458. I think there's even a long thread here bashing someone for changing his own oil on a 458. It's a much different crowd than the DIYers of the other models.
     
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