My research results - 2004 to 1970 | FerrariChat
Buy

My research results - 2004 to 1970

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by PSk, May 19, 2005.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #1 PSk, May 19, 2005
    So I said that I would compare the first and second drivers in the WC points (Here ... Best driver in F1?) to see if the championship that year was a 'Walk in the park' or 'Real'. Here are my results:

    Year,1st place driver,1st place points,1st place driver's car,2nd place driver,2nd place points,2nd place driver's car,Point difference, Walk OR Real?,Comments

    2004,MS,148,Ferrari,RB,114,Ferrari,34,Walk,
    2003,MS,93,Ferrari,KR,91,McLaren,2,Real,
    2002,MS,144,Ferrari,RB,77,Ferrari,67,Walk,
    2001,MS,123,Ferrari,DC,65,McLaren,58,Walk,
    2000,MS,108,Ferrari,MH,89,McLaren,19,Real,
    1999,MH,76,McLaren,EI,74,Ferrari,2,Real,
    1998,MH,100,McLaren,MS,86,Ferrari,14,Real,
    1997,JV,81,Williams,HHF,42,Williams,39,Walk,But we really know that MS was second and it was close
    1996,DH,97,Williams,JV,78,Williams,19,Real,
    1995,MS,102,Benetton,DH,69,Williams,33,Walk,
    1994,MS,92,Benetton,DH,91,Williams,1,Real,But we know that MS had points removed
    1993,AP,99,Williams,AS,73,McLaren,26,Walk,
    1992,NM,108,Williams,RP,56,Williams,52,Walk,
    1991,AS,96,McLaren,NM,72,Williams,24,Walk,
    1990,AS,78,McLaren,AP,71,Ferrari,7,Real,
    1989,AP,76,McLaren,AS,60,McLaren,16,Real,
    1988,AS,90,McLaren,AP,87,McLaren,3,Real,
    1987,NP,73,Williams,NM,61,Williams,12,Real,
    1986,AP,72,McLaren,NM,70,Williams,2,Real,
    1985,AP,73,McLaren,MA,53,Ferrari,20,Real,
    1984,NL,72,McLaren,AP,71.5,McLaren,0.5,Real,
    1983,NP,59,Brabham,AP,57,Renault,2,Real,
    1982,KR,44,Williams,DP,39,Ferrari,5,Real,
    1981,NP,50,Brabham,CR,49,Williams,1,Real,
    1980,AJ,67,Williams,NP,54,Brabham,13,Real,
    1979,JS,51,Ferrari,GV,47,Ferrari,4,Real,
    1978,MA,64,Lotus,RP,51,Lotus,13,Real,
    1977,NL,72,Ferrari,JS,55,Wolf,17,Real,
    1976,JH,69,McLaren,NL,68,Ferrari,1,Real,
    1975,NL,64.5,Ferrari,EF,45,McLaren,19.5,Real,
    1974,EF,55,McLaren,CR,52,Ferrari,3,Real,
    1973,JS,71,Tyrrell,EF,55,Lotus,16,Real,
    1972,EF,61,Lotus,JS,45,Tyrrell,16,Real,
    1971,JS,62,Tyrrell,RP,33,Lotus,29,Walk,
    1970,JR,45,Lotus,JI,40,Ferrari,5,Real,

    One day I might continue ... right back to 1950.

    Note how this displays the current lack of competitiveness in the F1 WC ... this is something that the FIA should/needs to look at. I believe it is caused by the way we are not preparing/training/grooming young drivers correctly before they get shoved into F1. The other cause might be the corporate pressure resulting in not selecting drivers on their ability behind the wheel ... but more the overal package BS (?).
    Pete
    ps: Walk in the park was determined by beating the second place driver by 20 points or more.

    WC results obtained from www.formula1.com
     
  2. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #2 PSk, May 19, 2005
    Thus IMO to compare drivers ...

    MS would loose 4 WCs ... thus he has 3 REAL ones.
    AP would loose 1 WC ... thus he has 3 real ones ... hmmm, only 26 points difference.
    AS would loose 1 WC ... thus he has 2 real ones ... again hmmm, I'm not being very flexible here. Only 24 points difference, thus maybe AS still has 3.
    NM would loose 1 WC ... thus he has no real ones, and
    JS would loose 1 WC ... thus he has 2 real ones.

    I guess this does not support my theory that AS is better than MS (unless I accept the 24 point difference one as a real WC) ... but it does support AP being better than AS and MS (IMO).

    Why when MS and AP both have 3 (AP really 4 ...?) ?. Have a look at how many times AP came second and very closely too ... plus his days were a little more competitive, and in my opinion AP is simply better :).

    Pete
    Note: that MS's easy WC's have been easier than anybody elses accept NM.
     
  3. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    #3 judge4re, May 19, 2005
    Why stop with F1? Let's be honest and take it back to GP racing.

    Taz wins this contest hands down.
     
  4. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #4 PSk, May 19, 2005
    If you can tell me where to get the results ... I might just do that.

    And yes I agree Tazio has my vote for all time number 1 ... plus it was way dangerous then.
    Pete
     
  5. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #5 PSk, May 19, 2005
    Year,1st place driver,1st place points,1st place driver's car,2nd place driver,2nd place points,2nd place driver's car,Point difference, Walk OR Real?,Comments

    1969,JS,63,Matra,JI,37,Brabham,26,Walk
    1968,GH,48,Lotus,JS,36,Matra,12,Real
    1967,Hulme,51,Brabham,JB,46,Brabham,5,Real
    1966,JB,42,Brabham,Surtees,28,Cooper,14,Real
    1965,JC,54,Lotus,GH,40,BRM,14,Real
    1964,Surtees,40,Ferrari,GH,39,BRM,1,Real
    1963,JC,63,Lotus,GH,29,BRM,34,Walk
    1962,GH,42,BRM,JC,30,Lotus,12,Real
    1961,PH,34,Ferrari,WVT,33,Ferrari,1,Real
    1960,JB,43,Cooper,BM,34,Cooper,9,Real
    1959,JB,31,Cooper,TB,27,Ferrari,4,Real
    1958,Hawthorn,42,Ferrari,SM,41,Cooper,1,Real
    1957,JF,40,Maserati,SM,25,Vanwell,15,Real
    1956,JF,30,Ferrari,SM,27,Maserati,3,Real
    1955,JF,40,Mercedes,SM,23,Mercedes,17,Real
    1954,JF,42,Maserati and Mercedes,JG,25.14,Ferrari,16.86,Real
    1953,AA,34.5,Ferrari,JF,28,Maserati,6.5,Real
    1952,AA,36,Ferrari,NF,24,Ferrari,12,Real
    1951,JF,31,Alfa Romeo,AA,25,Ferrari,6,Real
    1950,NF,30,Alfa Romeo,JF,27,Alfa Romeo,3,Real

    This truly confirms that the last few years (since 1991) have been the most uncompetitive in the history of F1 since its inception!

    Note also that ALL Fangio's WC's are considered real using this method! ... thus I have to retrack my comment made in the other thread about probable soft opposition in some seasons.
    Pete
     
  6. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,893
    #6 imperial83, May 20, 2005
    Yes it was a real walk in the park. Michael woke up one day and decided that he wnts to go race in F1. Then he decided that Jean Todt, Ross Brawn and himself are going to buold a car from scrtach in about 30 minutes or so and take it to the track.

    Let us not forget Michael Schumacher is the greatest driver to ever walk on this planet and the total Ferrari package is the best in F1 ever. So it is no wonder that they make things look easy. The competition is not bad. Michael Schumacher and Ferrari are just the best!
     
  7. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
    3,334
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles W
    #7 senna21, May 20, 2005
    I would argue that it has more to do with the proliferation of technology (specifically electronics) within the sport. I'm not just talking about the electronics used on the cars but also in the design. Without these tools the cars tended to be much closer in performance. Wildly different in design... but performance wise much closer. Isn't it surprising that as the cars have all began to look the same the performance in them is drastically different? It wasn't until the beginning of the 90s that electronics (traction control, 4-wheel steering, ect...) really began to be put to good use. That's also when budgets began to skyrocket. If you look at when the "Walks" really began to happen it was right around then.
     
  8. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    49,624
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    #8 tifosi12, May 20, 2005
    Although there is some logic to your approach and I agree somewhat with it, what it doesn't show is all the times somebody really deserved the title, but didn't get it for whatever reason.

    Nigel is the classic example. Pretty much everybody agreed that his title year was a walk in the park and an "undeserved" title. However Nigel has lost the title so many times in the past, that this was just fate paying him back.

    We often complain about the unfair rules. How about the stupid system that was in place in 1979, which split the season in half? I remember vividly how I was upset about the fact, that Alan Jones could mathematically not win the title even if he would end up with enough points in the second half of 79. How unfair is that?

    You call Keke's title real? Hell no. He was simply the only surviving driver that year. Again, a case of fate treating drivers unfairly.

    My point is, that simply counting or discounting titles doesn't quite answer the "who is best" question. But then again, probably nothing ever will.
     
  9. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #9 PSk, May 22, 2005
    Yes agree.

    I think the only way mathematically or statistically to work out who really is the best driver is to look at EACH drivers full F1 career and maybe average their results. Do this to all drivers and you will end up with the driver that did the best for the time they were in F1.

    The reason I did this research was to counter the annoying folks that keep going on and on how MS is the best because he has 7 WC's ... and thus statistics are all that mattered.

    While I rate MS very highly, I do NOT believe he is the best AND his ability has been over inflated by the lack of competitiveness of the last few years in F1. I believe I have proven this ...

    Thus (as you say) in conclusion you HAVE to look at far more than just the statistics and IF you do look at all the other evidence, etc. MS does not necessarily come out on top ... and Prost and Senna are still about the same level.

    Pete
     
  10. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,893
    #10 imperial83, May 22, 2005
    BAR Honda had an extremely good car in 2004. Too bad they sold out one of their race seats to an incompitent driver.

    So 2004 was a hard season and cannot be considered a walk!
     
  11. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #11 PSk, May 22, 2005
    Results do not indicate that:

    MS, Ferrari, 148
    RB, Ferrari, 114
    JB, BAR, 85

    BAR were nothing better than the best of the rest (losers/failures). Everybody elses appears to have been working on their 2006 cars ... ;)

    Pete
    ps: I stopped watching F1 in 2004 about the third race in ... it was so boring.
     
  12. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,893
    #12 imperial83, May 22, 2005
    I watched every single lap of every single race (some races in person). It was the best season in F1 ever. It was great to watch the greatest F1 racer win for the greatest F1 team and race the greatest F1 car ever!

    If Button had a real racer as a teammate then prbably BAR Honda would have been able to mount a bigger challenge. Remember F1 is a team sport and it takes two drivers to make a team. Michael and Rubens are the perfect team players. If Button had a good team mate (maybe someone like Anthony Davidson or Timo Glock) then BAR would have stood a chance.

    It is the price a team pays for selling a race seat to a poster boy!
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #13 PSk, May 22, 2005
    I am glad that you enjoyed it so much :).

    Note I posted the drivers WC points not the contructors (which I almost ignore ;)) points ... thus not sure what Button's team mate has to do with it, unless ofcourse you are implying that if Sato had blocked and sacrificed his race as much as RB does for MS, then Button would have more points? ;) ;)

    Pete
     
  14. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,893
    #14 imperial83, May 22, 2005
    F1 is a team sport! The complete Ferrari package and tactics is what makes the Scuderia winning team and Michael the world champion. Sato's inability to race, or for that matter drive, is the reason why BAR Honda and Button were not about to mount a challenge.

    It is absolutely necessary that each team have a number 1 racer and a number 2 racer. The number 1 racer and number 2 racer have different roles to play in the team. Even though they still compete and race each other, the number 2 racer must support the number 1's efforts for the entire team. 2004 was no where near a walk for Michael and Ferrari. Michael had to compete against an ever improving Rubens and a determined Button.
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #15 PSk, May 22, 2005
    MS beat Button by over 60 points ... that is 6 race wins.

    Thus MS could have sat out the last 6 races and STILL beaten Button. Yeah the media hyped it up, heck even I was impressed with the BAR team ... but in the end they did NOT push Ferrari.

    Again impressive effort by Ferrari ... :)
    Pete
     
  16. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,893
    #16 imperial83, May 22, 2005
    And... Michael Schumacher who has proved time and time again that he is the greatest F1 racer to have ever driven an F1 car.
     
  17. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #17 PSk, May 22, 2005
    Interesting comment Imperial.

    Lets analyse ... I do hope that I do not type too fast for you ... remember you can pause after each sentence to allow the ideas I am about to share with you to sink in ;)

    You refer to F1 racing as a team sport and yet when we talk about MS as a driver, you ignore the team. You ignore the fact that EVEN RB beat everybody last year (2004) as well and everybody who can spot talent knows that RB is not a star but a solid driver.

    Thus how can you be so sure that MS is really the best driver when it is obvious that for atleast 2 years (I say 3) of his WC wins he had a massively superior car!

    As you well now, because of your constant insistence that F1 is a team sport that the CAR (created by the team) has a huge influence.

    I put it to you that many of the drivers on the current grid could have won the 2002 and 2004 WC's in that very same Ferrari that MS drove ... even RB. Thus I have to discount those 2 seasons when I rate MS as it does not indicate at all his driving to be superior to any other drivers.

    Thoughts?
    Pete
    ps: And yes MS was part of the team that designed, tested and honed those cars ... but they did not have to develop it much as the rest of the grid completely fncked up and gave Ferrari a couple of easy WC's.
     
  18. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,893
    #18 imperial83, May 22, 2005
    F1 is a team sport. Michael is a perfeact team player and was able to help Ferrari develop such a perfect car.

    No other driver in the world could have done that! Michael is not only the greatest f1 racer in the world ever but he is also the greatest F1 team player ever.
     
  19. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
    5,559
    TX
    Full Name:
    Sameer
    #19 speedy_sam, May 22, 2005
    Pete, thanks for the analysis and effort ...

    I have the following observations:
    - I am glad to see one of my two favorite decades come on top in terms of real competition - the 80s. The 30s were also my favorite. Both seasons had the best calibre of racing drivers that one could imagine.

    - I think your cut-off point for real / walk needs to be adjusted downwards from 80s backwards - there was only 9 pts for a win back then and thus the difference between drivers is not as much much.

    Also keep in mind the number of WC races has more than doubled since the 50s. In the 1950s, there were just 7 races while in 2004 there were 18. Thus 20 points represents 11.7% of maximum points in 2004 versus 29% of points in 1950 (9 points for win and 1 point for fastest lap).

    Here's my take on the competitiveness based on a separate cut-off factor calibrated using the number of races per season. I am using your 20 point scale as the input.

    50s - 7 races/season (based on 1950 season) --> cut-off = 8 points
    1959,JB,31,Cooper,TB,27,Ferrari,4,Real
    1958,Hawthorn,42,Ferrari,SM,41,Cooper,1,Real
    1957,JF,40,Maserati,SM,25,Vanwell,15,Real --> Walk
    1956,JF,30,Ferrari,SM,27,Maserati,3,Real
    1955,JF,40,Mercedes,SM,23,Mercedes,17,Real --> Walk
    1954,JF,42,Maserati and Mercedes,JG,25.14,Ferrari,16.86,Real --> Walk
    1953,AA,34.5,Ferrari,JF,28,Maserati,6.5,Real
    1952,AA,36,Ferrari,NF,24,Ferrari,12,Real --> Walk
    1951,JF,31,Alfa Romeo,AA,25,Ferrari,6,Real
    1950,NF,30,Alfa Romeo,JF,27,Alfa Romeo,3,Real
    Real / Walk ratio: 6/4

    The 60s - 10 races/season(based on 1960 season) --> cut-off = 11 points
    1969,JS,63,Matra,JI,37,Brabham,26,Walk
    1968,GH,48,Lotus,JS,36,Matra,12,Real --> Walk
    1967,Hulme,51,Brabham,JB,46,Brabham,5,Real
    1966,JB,42,Brabham,Surtees,28,Cooper,14,Real --> Walk
    1965,JC,54,Lotus,GH,40,BRM,14,Real --> Walk
    1964,Surtees,40,Ferrari,GH,39,BRM,1,Real
    1963,JC,63,Lotus,GH,29,BRM,34,Walk
    1962,GH,42,BRM,JC,30,Lotus,12,Real --> Walk
    1961,PH,34,Ferrari,WVT,33,Ferrari,1,Real
    1960,JB,43,Cooper,BM,34,Cooper,9,Real
    Real / Walk ratio: 4/6

    The 70s - 13 races/season (based on 1970 season) --> cut-off = 14 points
    1979,JS,51,Ferrari,GV,47,Ferrari,4,Real,
    1978,MA,64,Lotus,RP,51,Lotus,13,Real,
    1977,NL,72,Ferrari,JS,55,Wolf,17,Real, --> Walk
    1976,JH,69,McLaren,NL,68,Ferrari,1,Real,
    1975,NL,64.5,Ferrari,EF,45,McLaren,19.5,Real, --> Walk
    1974,EF,55,McLaren,CR,52,Ferrari,3,Real,
    1973,JS,71,Tyrrell,EF,55,Lotus,16,Real, --> Walk
    1972,EF,61,Lotus,JS,45,Tyrrell,16,Real, --> Walk
    1971,JS,62,Tyrrell,RP,33,Lotus,29,Walk,
    1970,JR,45,Lotus,JI,40,Ferrari,5,Real,
    Real / Walk ratio: 5/5

    The 80s - 14 races/season (based on 1980 season) --> cut-off = 16 points
    1989,AP,76,McLaren,AS,60,McLaren,16,Real, borderline
    1988,AS,90,McLaren,AP,87,McLaren,3,Real,
    1987,NP,73,Williams,NM,61,Williams,12,Real,
    1986,AP,72,McLaren,NM,70,Williams,2,Real,
    1985,AP,73,McLaren,MA,53,Ferrari,20,Real, --> Walk
    1984,NL,72,McLaren,AP,71.5,McLaren,0.5,Real,
    1983,NP,59,Brabham,AP,57,Renault,2,Real,
    1982,KR,44,Williams,DP,39,Ferrari,5,Real,
    1981,NP,50,Brabham,CR,49,Williams,1,Real,
    1980,AJ,67,Williams,NP,54,Brabham,13,Real,
    Real / Walk ratio: 9/1 --> The Winner by far!

    The 90s - 16 races/season (based on 1990 season) --> cut-off = 18 points
    1999,MH,76,McLaren,EI,74,Ferrari,2,Real,
    1998,MH,100,McLaren,MS,86,Ferrari,14,Real,
    1997,JV,81,Williams,HHF,42,Williams,39,Walk,But we really know that MS was second and it was close
    1996,DH,97,Williams,JV,78,Williams,19,Real, --> walk
    1995,MS,102,Benetton,DH,69,Williams,33,Walk,
    1994,MS,92,Benetton,DH,91,Williams,1,Real,But we know that MS had points removed
    1993,AP,99,Williams,AS,73,McLaren,26,Walk,
    1992,NM,108,Williams,RP,56,Williams,52,Walk,
    1991,AS,96,McLaren,NM,72,Williams,24,Walk,
    1990,AS,78,McLaren,AP,71,Ferrari,7,Real,
    Real / Walk ratio: 5/5

    Also if we were to define competitive seasons as one where the WDC and runner-up were from two different teams (indicating a car and driver competitiveness) then there wont be that many seasons that qualify

    You know what they say about lies, damned lies, and statistics :)
     
  20. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,602
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    #20 Tifoso1, May 22, 2005
    OH MY GOD!!!!! YOU PEOPLE HAVE WAYYYYY TO MUCH FREE TIME ON YOUR HANDS. GO GET YOURSELF A GIRL TO KISS OR SOMETHING . *LOL*
     
  21. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #21 PSk, May 22, 2005
    :), thanks for your input ... and interesting and makes sense that JF's season in '55 should be considered a walk, as it definitely was.

    But I disagree with your definition of a competitive season, ie. the WDC and runner-up having to come from different teams. Yes that would define a competitive manufacturers series/year, but if you look at McLaren when Senna and Prost were racing against each other, those seasons were extremely competitive between those 2 drivers. Thus we have another exception ... ;)

    And yes it is all a varing variable ;)
    Pete
     
  22. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #22 PSk, May 31, 2005
    More research results. Average position in the WC, 1950-59

    Driver, Average Position/years contested, Years: 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59

    Juan M Fangio, 2.875, 2, 1, , 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 14, ,
    Brooks, 3.333333, , , , , , , , 5, 3, 2,
    Nino Farina, 3.833333, 1, 4, 2, 3, 8, 5, , , , ,
    Fischer, 4, , , 4, , , , , , , ,
    Moss, 4.166667, , , , , 14, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3,
    Castellotti, 4.5, , , , , , 3, 6, , , ,
    Hawthorn, 4.833333, , , 5, 4, 3, , 12, 4, 1, ,
    Taruffi, 5, , 6, 3, , , 6, , , , ,
    Colins, 5.666667, , , , , , , 3, 9, 5, ,
    Parsons, 6, 6, , , , , , , , , ,
    McLaren, 6, , , , , , , , , , 6,
    Ascari, 6.8, 5, 2, 1, 1, 25, , , , , ,
    Luigi ***oli, 7, 3, 11, , , , , , , , ,
    Wallard, 7, , 7, , , , , , , , ,
    Holland, 7, 7, , , , , , , , , ,
    Ruttman, 7, , , 7, , , , , , , ,
    Gurney, 7, , , , , , , , , , 7,
    Gregory, 7.5, , , , , , , , 6, , 9,
    Kling, 8, , , , , 5, 11, , , , ,
    Musso, 8, , , , , 9, 9, 11, 3, 8, ,
    Rosier, 8.5, 4, 13, , , , , , , , ,
    Schell, 8.666667, , , , , , , , 7, 6, 13,
    Trintignant, 8.714286, , , 17, 11, 4, 4, , 13, 7, 5,
    Nazaruk, 9, , 9, , , , , , , , ,
    Whitehead, 9, 9, , , , , , , , , ,
    Brabham, 9.5, , , , , , , , , 18, 1,
    Gonzales, 9.833333, , 3, 9, 6, 2, 17, , 22, , ,
    Chiron, 10, 10, , , , , , , , , ,
    Fairman, 10, , , , , , , 10, , , ,
    Hill (Phil), 10, , , , , , , , , 10, ,
    Ward, 10, , , , , , , , , , 10,
    Parnell, 10.5, 11, 10, , , , , , , , ,
    Manzon, 10.5, , , 6, , 15, , , , , ,
    Lewis-Evans, 10.5, , , , , , , , 12, 9, ,
    Behra, 11, , , 11, , , 10, 4, 11, 12, 18,
    Sanesi, 12, , 12, , , , , , , , ,
    Bira, 12.5, 8, , , , 17, , , , , ,
    Von Trips, 12.5, , , , , , , , 14, 11, ,
    Villoresi, 12.83333, , 5, 8, 5, 20, 19, 20, , , ,
    Wharton, 13, , , 13, , , , , , , ,
    Frere, 13.33333, , , 18, , , 15, 7, , , ,
    Bonetto, 13.75, 19, 8, 19, 9, , , , , , ,
    Salvadori, 14, , , , , , , , 18, 4, 20,
    Bonnier, 14, , , , , , , , , 20, 8,
    Ireland, 14, , , , , , , , , , 14,
    Sommer, 15, 15, , , , , , , , , ,
    Gendebien, 15, , , , , , , , , , 15,
    Allison, 18, , , , , , , , , 19, 17,
    Maglioli, 19.5, , , , , 18, 21, , , , ,

    Note how drivers that did not contest many seasons but did well have averaged well, but also notice how Fangio who did all but 2 seasons still comes out on top.

    As I am after a comparison that shows us how well a driver did for every season they contested this is the best average, and why I have not simply average by the 10 years, thus for example: Tony Brooks performed very well!

    Pete
     
  23. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    #23 PSk, May 31, 2005
    Average points in WC, 1950-59:

    Year, Average points/years contested, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59

    Juan M Fangio, 30.625, 27, 31, , 28, 42, 40, 30, 40, 7, ,
    Moss, 24.27333333, , , , , 4.14, 23, 27, 25, 41, 25.5,
    Ascari, 21.128, 9, 25, 36, 34.5, 1.14, , , , , ,
    Brooks, 20.66666667, , , , , , , , 11, 24, 27,
    Nino Farina, 19.22166667, 30, 19, 24, 26, 6, 10.33, , , , ,
    Hawthorn, 18.77333333, , , 10, 19, 24.64, , 4, 13, 42, ,
    Brabham, 17, , , , , , , , , 3, 31,
    McLaren, 16.5, , , , , , , , , , 16.5,
    Colins, 15.66666667, , , , , , , 25, 8, 14, ,
    Luigi ***oli, 14, 24, 4, , , , , , , , ,
    Taruffi, 13.66666667, , 10, 22, , , 9, , , , ,
    Gurney, 13, , , , , , , , , , 13,
    Gonzales, 12.02333333, , 24, 6.5, 13.5, 25.14, 2, , 1, , ,
    Trintignant, 10.04714286, , , 2, 4, 17, 11.33, , 5, 12, 19,
    Fischer, 10, , , 10, , , , , , , ,
    Gregory, 10, , , , , , , , 10, , 10,
    Castellotti, 9.75, , , , , , 12, 7.5, , , ,
    Schell, 9.666666667, , , , , , , , 10, 14, 5,
    Wallard, 9, , 9, , , , , , , , ,
    Parsons, 9, 9, , , , , , , , , ,
    Musso, 8.8, , , , , 6, 6, 4, 16, 12, ,
    Behra, 8.5, , , 6, , , 6, 22, 6, 9, 2,
    Kling, 8.5, , , , , 12, 5, , , , ,
    Salvadori, 8.5, , , , , , , , 2, 15, ,
    Rosier, 8, 13, 3, , , , , , , , ,
    Ruttman, 8, , , 8, , , , , , , ,
    Lewis-Evans, 8, , , , , , , , 5, 11, ,
    Ward, 8, , , , , , , , , , 8,
    Villoresi, 7.666666667, , 15, 8, 17, 2, 2, 2, , , ,
    Manzon, 6.5, , , 9, , 4, , , , , ,
    Von Trips, 6.5, , , , , , , , 4, 9, ,
    Hill (Phil), 6.5, , , , , , , , , 9, 4,
    Bonnier, 6.5, , , , , , , , , 3, 10,
    Nazaruk, 6, , 6, , , , , , , , ,
    Holland, 6, 6, , , , , , , , , ,
    Fairman, 5, , , , , , , 5, , , ,
    Ireland, 5, , , , , , , , , , 5,
    Parnell, 4.5, 4, 5, , , , , , , , ,
    Bonetto, 4.375, 2, 7, 2, 6.5, , , , , , ,
    Bira, 4, 5, , , , 3, , , , , ,
    Whitehead, 4, 4, , , , , , , , , ,
    Chiron, 4, 4, , , , , , , , , ,
    Frere, 3.666666667, , , 2, , , 3, 6, , , ,
    Sanesi, 3, , 3, , , , , , , , ,
    Sommer, 3, 3, , , , , , , , , ,
    Wharton, 3, , , 3, , , , , , , ,
    Gendebien, 3, , , , , , , , , , 3,
    Allison, 2.5, , , , , , , , , 3, 2,
    Maglioli, 1.665, , , , , 2, 1.33, , , , ,

    Pete
     
  24. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    #24 judge4re, May 31, 2005
    Lies, damned lies and statistics.
     
  25. Koby

    Koby Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
    2,307
    The Borough, NJ
    Full Name:
    Jason Kobies
    #25 Koby, May 31, 2005
    Keep in mind that back in the 60s and 70s, 2/3's of the grid were all using the same motor (Ford DFV).
     

Share This Page