My track day experience | FerrariChat

My track day experience

Discussion in '348/355' started by bobzdar, Apr 2, 2013.

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  1. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Pete
    #1 bobzdar, Apr 2, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
    I finally made it to the track in my f355, and despite my best intentions it was a mad scramble to get there. It was a track rental organized by a friend of a friend at the VIR south course, limited to 13 or 14 cars with only 6 cars allowed on course at once, so a promise of a lot of track time, indeed more than I could use as it turns out. I started prep about 2 weeks prior to the track day, I bought new tires as my street tires were old (rears were over 5 years old) and my more aggressive tires were almost slicks in the rear. I ended up with Conti Extreme contact DW's and a set of Hooiser R6 take-offs in case I got ambitious. That went fine, but in preparation I went over the entire suspension to make sure everything looked good and, well, it didn't. See here:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355/403432-damaged-spring-mount-supports.html

    I ended up getting the spring supports welded up 2 days before the track day and in the process fried my ABS module. It turned out to be just a burnt ground, so easily fixed. Got that done and the brakes bled with fresh fluid that day and figured I was good to go. Hooked the trailer up the next day and while testing the lights, blew a rear brake line on my truck, which is kind of crazy as it only has 60k miles and has been well maintained. Then, while airing up the tires on the trailer, I found two leaking valve stems. Of course, being a Sunday (and Easter no less) I was on my own for all the repairs while having to juggle Easter dinner with the family. So, I finally got the car loaded up and everything sorted on the truck and trailer at around midnight, with my plan to leave at 5:30am the same morning.

    Made it to the track, unloaded the car and let it warm up and it started misfiring after a couple of minutes. Found cylinder 2 plug wet, cleaned it up and put it back in and it was running fine, but missed my first run while messing with it. Started it up for my 2nd run and it was misfiring again! So, I pulled the plug, cleaned it really well with a small file and put it back together and all was good, got out on the track and ran 5 or 6 easy laps to make sure everything was working well and then ran a hot one and pulled it into the pits to check over the spring support repairs and make sure there were no leaks or anything.

    All checked out and I headed back out (at this point, it was pretty much open track, awesome!) with my brother as passenger and made it 4 laps until the misfire came back. This time it was cylinder 8, so I pulled the plug, cleaned it really well and rerouted the plug wires a bit thinking maybe they were leaky. That was finally the end of the misfire issue for the day, car ran well from then on out. Here's a quick vid of me following a buddy of mine in his c6 z06. We were about even in the corners, though his car could out accelerate and outbrake mine. I rode with him for his first session as he didn't know the track yet (he got there late and I had already done a couple of runs) and was really impressed with the brakes, more so than the power.

    Apr12013129PM_1_video_20130401_132951 - YouTube

    Only issue I had was some brake fade after 3 or 4 decently hard laps, then I'd have to take a lap to cool them down which was fine as the tires started getting greasy at about the same time. I only had one off, which was due directly to the brakes as I kept pushing the pedal harder without much happening and just went straight off rather than try to make the turn.

    Apr12013230PM_1_video_20130401_143005 - YouTube

    All in all, it was an absolute blast and a childhood dream realized. I just wish I wasn't so exhausted from the prep as I could have easily run twice as many laps as I did, but I packed it in early rather than make an expensive mistake due to fatigue. If you haven't had your car on a track, you owe it to yourself to do so as you really can't get anywhere near the car's capabilities on the street. I was hitting 135-140mph at the end of the straight before standing on the brakes for t1.

    Time for a harness and a better seat, then some track pads.
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    And a driving suit, carbon helmet, HANS, right side net, 355 challenge cage, fire bottle, delrin bushings, DOT-R tires, more wheels for those tires, brake ducts, trackside tools, cool suit, and...and....and.... Let me know when you are ready!
     
  3. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    I've got the DOT-R's on a set of challenge rims, I just didn't feel the brakes were up to it and I was getting tired. I also have trackside tools, driving suit, fire bottle etc., but I use them with the Porsche chumpcar. This car will see occasional track days only, no racing, I can't afford that in a Ferrari. But, I had to stick my left foot out to brace myself on every right hander and was generally getting thrown around in the car so the harness is a must (I can pull it out of the porsche, just need a harness bar) and the brake fade needs to be mitigated.

    Of course, I'm sure I'll end up finding the next weak link and addressing that, but for now I'd just like to get more track time in it without getting thrown around and losing the brakes.
     
  4. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Nice lines Pete, real nice! Best to run off straight as you did when you were coming up too fast for the turn.

    What a blast - thanks for sharing!

    BTW: what RPM were you hitting? Hard to tell from the sound
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    looks like some neat turns infield of that short course, I've only done the long.
     
  6. Extreme

    Extreme F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2010
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    I am so jealous, looked like an absolute blast.

    There is a track within 50 miles of me but they only have open days once a month for the summer months and then you only get around 6 laps depending on how many cars show up. Plus they put up cones on the track to keep speeds down. I haven't done it yet but plan to this year.
     
  7. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    I was generally shifting between 7500 and 8500rpm. Right at 8500rpm on the straight as I could glance down at the tach.
     
  8. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    I've now driven North, South, Full and Grand - and I've only been there on 4 days, so a different configuration for each day :). Just patriot left, but I think they mainly do that in the Atoms. South is fun because it's non stop action except for the straight and it's easy to learn but very tough to master so you can really spend time pushing and finding different ways to take the turns. I ran my best lap later in the afternoon, around 2 seconds faster than the 2nd video.
     
  9. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    Pete,

    You know the shortcomings of your F355, as it exists now, for use on the track. That was a nice repair of the supports and it's good that you're thinking about Challenge modifications.

    Your driving skill level necessitates better brakes and secure seating. And I'm sure you have some good ideas.

    Nice lines you took all the way around and a good quick decision on running off.

    Barry
     
  10. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,721
    As you get upwards of 400 laps on the car, you will learn that you don't need to brake as hard as you think early in your career, taking more speed into the corner and letting the natural slip angles on the tires continue the deceleration towards apex. Smooth onto the gas as apex nears will open up the trajectory down the next straight.

    You will also learn how to reduce steering input by using throttle (sometime more and sometimes less.) Let off the gas in a smooth maner (rather than abruptly, and squeeze on the brake pedal no faster than the suspension compresses under braking leaads to shorter stops and more control during the whole manouver.

    Both of these techniques will smooth out the car and allow you to drive it closer to the edge of traction. Tire temps will moderate, and a little diddling with tire pressures wil finish dialing in the car (a probe tipped pyrometer helps).

    ETA: I ended up using Ferrodo DS2500 pads for both street and track. I get 5-8 track days on the pads and 30-odd track days on a set of rotors.
     
  11. rbellezza

    rbellezza F1 Rookie

    Jun 18, 2008
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    Nice vids ! Good driving too !
     
  12. Dazzling

    Dazzling Formula 3

    Nov 18, 2010
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    Well done Pete, looks like a great track :)
     
  13. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

    Jul 8, 2011
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    Pete looks like a blast, really looking forward to getting my car on a track one day. I've not really got an excuse - I've got 2 decent tracks just down the road (although one is Cadwell Park which is apparently not the easiest circuit in the world).

    I've got a question for you. You seem pretty handy round the track but don't seem to have that much real life experience. I read a post by you the other day re iracing and signed up a couple of days ago, just for a bit of fun. My question is, useful or not prior to going on a track for the first time?

    Clearly this isn't typical but I was reading about a guy over here in Europe who had only ever previously raced a sim. He was picked up by Nissan (it was through the Sony GT Academy) and in his first race was stood on the podium - this was driving a full GT car and 12 weeks after first stepping into a race car. It was also a 24 hour race so obviously included drivng at night. In his first season he put his car on pole at the Nurgergring (and came 3rd over all) won at Brands Hatch and was on the podium 4 times. He came second in the GT Championship because his car broke down in the final race. He's now in Formula 3 (1 year after getting into a real car) and came 11th in his first weekend in an open wheeler. He's set to be driving an LMP2 car at Le Mans this year.

    Other 'gamers' have had this kind of success. Although they have no real life experience the guys picked up by Nissan in the GT Academy have just been banned from competing in the British GT Championship as, although they are basically 'recruited' based on their ability to drive a computer game, the organisers have said they are too 'talented' to be racing as amateurs. It's worth noting that the 'pro' drivers Nissan were using only had 2 years experience on a real track since driving a 'game' whereas the 'amateurs' they were fielding were only 12 weeks in the 'real world'.

    So, long question, but worth giving it a go prior to going on a track? And if so is iRacing a good bet?
     
  14. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Extremely useful, Pete, especially if iracing has your track. My best lap was later in the day and about 2 seconds faster than the 2nd video, wish I had video but the sd card in my phone filled up and I didn't realize it.

    Regarding the sim, unless you are already a very good driver, do not expect to pick the sim up very quickly. It will take hundreds, if not thousands, of laps to get really fast and it's at that point that it becomes valuable as a tool beyond just learning the track layout. You will have to do the laps one way or the other, but it's a LOT cheaper to do so in the sim. You do have to be mindful not to develop any bad habits that you can get away with in the sim but will either not work in the real world or destroy your car.
     
  15. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    Thanks for that. As I say I've got zero track experience (indoor go kart once 15 years ago is about it but don't think that counts), and I've never been much of a gamer so a driving sim is a pretty new experience for me. Just had a quick bash and although they don't have my local tracks they do have Silverston (where our Ferrari Owners' Club have track days) as well as Brands Hatch and Oulton Part - I've downloaded these as I could go to them so may as well start there.

    I've heard that the latest sims are quite realistic, and that iRacing is possibly the most realistic for a standard PC with regular Force Feedback wheel, which is why I thought I'd give it a rumble. Got to be honest, it feels a lot more like driving than I thought it would! I also pretty much suck so I guess it's spot on :) I've got no idea what sort of times I should be aiming for as a novice (in game and in reality!) but I've just had a bash in the Mazda MX5 (my sister used to have one, but just a standard road going one) on Brands Hatch - GP circuit and Summit Point Raceway. I'm a good 8 seconds off the 'world record' at Brands Hatch in that car, I have no clue how you can get the car through the corners that quick, but at Summit Point there's 2000 people slower than me so that's reasurring! Definitely need some work though :)

    Anyway, thanks for your post previously about iRacing, as well as this one about the real thing.
     
  16. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    well, I think there are 3 stages in progression.

    1) beginners = too fast in, slow out.

    2) amateurs = slow in, fast out.

    3) pros = fast in, fast out.

    :D
     
  17. dlynes

    dlynes Formula 3

    Oct 16, 2004
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    Dave
    glad you got the chance to get out and enjoy it!

    sorry to hear about the mishaps.

    have you experience he misfires before?

    how much did the track day cost?

    I use to race motorcycles but never tracked my car.

    Amazing how tight track is and how much evaluation changes they have.
     
  18. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    I experienced the misfire one other time after getting on it hard before the car was fully up to temp. At the time, I attributed the issue to running the colder plugs (PMR8) specc'd for the '96 up cars and need the hotter PMR7's the '95's came with. However, the fact that it developed the misfire out on track after 4 laps when fully up to temp indicates to me that maybe it's not the plug heat range. I'm not sure if re-routing the plug wires or cleaning up the plug electrodes is what finally fixed the issue, but it ran perfectly the rest of the day. I plan to get new plugs and will go with the one stop hotter PMR7's and see how it runs.

    The track day cost me a bargain basement $200! However, after buying tires, having the spring supports fixed, gas etc., it was more like 10x that all in. A rental of the South for the day runs around $6000, so if you spread that out on 15 cars it'd work out to about $400 a piece. The guy that rented the track was, lets say, not worried at all about money so only charged us half that. I was lucky to get invited. 15 cars was about perfect in that there was rarely a wait to get on track even with the 6 car limit, and at the end of the day it actually was empty at times.
     
  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Misfires are either spark or fuel. They very from seat of the pants imperceptible to even my grandma knows something is not right. Based on your report I'm not convinced you have fixed it. I would research this issue more. An interesting anecdote is that there are many 355s of all years which needed valve guides cats etc. Despite low miles. Then there are still some 95s with original equipment needing nothing. While we know the valve guides are inferior for the application if the theory that proper combustion is a primary componant of early cars especially not needing all this attention then it sure sounds like curing your misfire for good is a worthy effort.
     
  20. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    My car has test pipes and the guides were done in 2005. I'm not sure I fixed it either, but it's tough to fix such an intermittent issue to where it's happened on two occasions in a year and a half...
     
  21. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    I have a 95 for 13 years and it is very easy to foul plugs. The 95's run really rich at idle. If you start your car for a few seconds and shut if off-- you'll foul plugs. My car is a really early car and someone in town had one 2 serial #'s from mine and was constantly fouling plugs because he would start it, back out of his garage and shut it off. I did it several times until I figured out what the problem was. I had my car dyno tuned and had a piggyback computer and the tuner took large amounts of fuel out at idle. Do you let your car run for awhile while it is cold or do you quickly shut it down?
     
  22. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well...you detected it on two occasions in a year and a half...there are still nearly undetectable misfires which can cause damage. Proper diagnostic tools and thoughtful maintanance may make a longevity difference. For example, cleaning/balancing injectors is not part of a major service. The oldest car in the fleet is 18 y/o. There is a lot of potential fueling problems right there. If you take apart a 355 fuel injector harness you may be shocked at its quality construction. That also is not part of any major service.
     
  23. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Actually, part of the 2006 service when the guides were done included cleaning, balancing and replacement of one of the
    injectors. I'm going to start with the plugs and go from there as messing with the plugs is what 'fixed it' this time.
     
  24. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
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    Great videos, thanks for sharing. I was impressed with the lack of camera shake. What camera did you use? Does it have built-in image stabilization, was it mounted in a suspension holder, or was the track just that smooth? Now next time, if you got a camera with an external mic jack, and put the mic in the engine compartment...... hmmmm...
     
  25. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    That was actually just my cell phone, a Motorola Droid Razr, with a suction cup mount on the windshield :). It does have digital image stabilization, but obviously nothing fancy. I was running trackmaster which tracks your laps via GPS and gives you speeds, sector times etc. while recording video. Unfortunately, my SD card filled up and I didn't realize it so that's all the video I got.
     

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