My unsolicted, biased, and subjective account of driving exotics, including F-cars | Page 2 | FerrariChat

My unsolicted, biased, and subjective account of driving exotics, including F-cars

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Aradune, Jul 15, 2004.

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  1. Aradune

    Aradune Karting

    Jul 11, 2004
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    San Diego
    #26 Aradune, Jul 17, 2004
    I posted my experiences -- they are not nonsense, anymore than your's are.

    I'm glad that you qualified your experiences as ranging across 22 years and including both Lambos and Ferraris (although you apparently decided not to document them). I've no clue what kind of driving you've done, babying them, driving them hard on the track, or somewhere in-between. I also don't know what's important to you when evaluating an exotic.

    Rather, I merely posted my experience after renting a Diablo VT 5.7. It was you who claimed my experience was invalid and even insulted me by implying that I was perhaps an idiot and didn't realize that I was actually driving a replica.

    Whatever. I'm glad you enjoy your cars, as I enjoy mine. If you would take the time to, instead of attacking my experiences, post your experiences with various exotics over your 22 years, both owned, borrowed, and rented, I would gladly read it -- in fact, I'd eat it up, because I love hearing from people who've driven all sorts of exotics. One thing for sure, however, is that I wouldn't attack your opinons like you attacked mine. Despite your insults, I would respect your opinions and experiences nontheless. Also, your assertion that my opinions and experiences are somehow magically invalidated because I rented a car are bogus -- certainly, owning a car and putting 13,000 miles on it gives you a better impression, but renting one and driving it hard is not meaningless -- I learned quite a bit driving putting hundreds of miles on a euro-spec F40, both on the autobahn and Nurburnging -- if you think these experiences are invalid, well, stick it.

    So, in summary, bugger off, stick your dogma and Ad Hominem somewhere else; or, and far better yet, share with us all the knowlege and experience you've gleaned in your 22 years of driving exotics -- it might actually be a good read :)
     
  2. ferrari sulla pellicola

    ferrari sulla pellicola Formula Junior

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    #27 ferrari sulla pellicola, Jul 17, 2004
    it may be unsolicited,biased and subjective....but its nice to read actual input rather than just how *****en it was....id make a few swaps among the Ferrari's and the Porsches from what ive driven personally.
     
  3. Aradune

    Aradune Karting

    Jul 11, 2004
    76
    San Diego
    #28 Aradune, Jul 17, 2004
    Thanks :)
     
  4. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

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    #29 Doody, Jul 17, 2004
    aradune - neat post - thanks for taking the time to write that up.

    i also agree with you that religion is a factor in the responses. lighten up guys - it's just one guy's opinion.

    i'm looking forward to your writeup of your CS once you get it to the track.

    best,
    doody.
     
  5. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
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    Mar 17, 2002
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    #30 Brian C. Stradale, Jul 17, 2004
    Yeah, what he said! (I was just about to write the same thing.)

    I'll add: its his opinion... as such, it CANNOT be "wrong"!! You may not have the same opinion, but you can't assert that it is NOT his opinion. Sheesh, the guy contributed his time to give us that nice write up... and it was a nice, descriptive write-up of actual experiences with the cars.

    Thanks for the post... I found it very interesting.
     
  6. 6.0 se

    6.0 se F1 Rookie
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    #31 6.0 se, Jul 18, 2004
    Many of "your opinions" are so far off, it does make entertaining reading. So, I dont think I'll "bugger off". And obviously, you enjoy writing alot of stuff. Knock yourself out. I've shared plenty on this forum, but when someone like yourself makes a top 20 list of the cars that you have stated, and bases opinions after having rented, or borrowed a friends, or gone for a dealer drive, it's laughable, but again, entertaining.
     
  7. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

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    #32 GTE, Jul 18, 2004
    Well, renting or owning the car doesn't change how it drives, does it? I don't think car-journalist are actually judging their own cars when taking them for a spin and giving them a thumbs up or down. So, here is someone that has been dissapointed with a Diablo. It happens. I'll bet there are also plenty of people like yourself who are totally blown away by this Lambo. Doesn't change the fact that everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it isn't to your liking.
     
  8. 6.0 se

    6.0 se F1 Rookie
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    #33 6.0 se, Jul 18, 2004
    Well, thats your opinion. My problem and "opinion" is a list based on renting, borrowing, dealer drives, etc. Did he think that individuals that have owned these cars would just say "oh ok, its just his opinion"? Every time I start a thread here, something I say comes under attack and scrutiny. That's fine, Im a big boy. Everyone is not going to agree with everything said here. I think the basis for his list is humorous, and I am stating my opinion in the way that I choose. You find the thread interesting, I find it amusing. Different strokes for different folks. No flame intended. Opinion only.
     
  9. 6.0 se

    6.0 se F1 Rookie
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    #34 6.0 se, Jul 18, 2004
    Nice opinion. I dont share it.Its not the Lambo. You dont get it. Thats fine. And of course the time behind the wheel changes opinions. And thats why I put no credibility in mag reports on cars, same reason. Its not personal.
     
  10. 6.0 se

    6.0 se F1 Rookie
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    #35 6.0 se, Jul 18, 2004
    All right, I'll "bugger off". I will be working on my list of top 20. And I will expect alot more criticism and negatives than Aradune received. lol
     
  11. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

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    #36 Doody, Jul 18, 2004
    right answer!

    i'm very much looking forward to it since i know some of what's in your garage.

    doody.
     
  12. Aradune

    Aradune Karting

    Jul 11, 2004
    76
    San Diego
    #37 Aradune, Jul 18, 2004
    Agreed! Looking forward to your write-up :)
     
  13. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

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    #38 Testacojones, Jul 18, 2004
    To bo honest I really don't see much real input with your comments, I tell you one thing and is that you dont sound like a real 911 man and it seem to me that you need a really fast car to feel or to be fast. I have owned some Ferraris and Porsches and NSXs, driven many exotics and I don't come to see or judge this cars in the same way as you, I know you are just talking from your point of view and keep it that way because certainly you are far from calling yourself an expert. And thats that.
     
  14. Aradune

    Aradune Karting

    Jul 11, 2004
    76
    San Diego
    #39 Aradune, Jul 19, 2004
    1. I've put as many miles on my 996tt as on a 360; I prefer the 360 on the track, and the 996tt on the street. This may be, as I mentioned, because I need more practice with the 996 chasis and rear engine with PSM off.

    2. Glad to hear you've owned and driven a bunch of exotics too -- post your experiences and how they differered -- can't wait to read.

    3. In the beginning of my post I clearly state that I am indeed no expert and that other's experiences would undoubtedly vary.

    What I'd hoped would occur would be a. questions and b. other people posting their experiences with exotics. Instead, most of the threads (other than those defending me -- thanks :) ) are hollow criticisms. Ah well.
     
  15. Fan512bbi

    Fan512bbi Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #40 Fan512bbi, Jul 19, 2004
    Aradune just to drive the cars you have is amazing, for those of us who will never be able to drive these cars it was a great insight to how they perform, i dont care if you own, rent, or borrow them, it was a good write up.
     
  16. Silver99

    Silver99 Rookie
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    #41 Silver99, Jul 19, 2004
    His thoughts on Lambo: Insane. Needs way more seat time, in something a tad newer than a decade old AWD model. Night and day between that and a 6.0/Murcielago. High four second 0-60? LOL, try mid 3s buddy. Next time drop the clutch and don't baby it. It was a rental afterall right?

    His thoughts on the NSX: Comedy. If the F355 is slow, then what is my NSX? I say it's DOG slow and I'm counting the seconds until I can deep six it in favor of an e-Gear Murci. Slow as hell and I've turned a 12.9 second 1/4 mile time in it which is faster than most. I must have got a good one and it's still slow, lol. Reliable = yes. Boring = yes. Practical = yes.

    His thoughts on Porsche: Anyone that thinks for one second that they can outhustle a 911TT in a straight line, on a track, in your mom's driveway, basically anywhere, in a stock 360 needs to lay off the Jim Beam. Not going to happen. I don't give a **** who you "passed" on the straight at Willow. As if that means anything, lol, those drivers could have been weary of your weaving all over the road like a drunk man and wanted to stay the hell out of your way. The 911TT stock for stock is leagues faster than a 360, there's no debate about that.

    His thoughts on Ferrari: Not sure why anyone would prefer the F50's engine to the F40's, clearly he's a biased anti-turbo guy. The F50 was a dramatic disappointment to F40 owners, who lamented publically why Ferrari would ever put out a car that was slower than the previous version. His F40 comments were accurate, though typical in his arrogance he glorifies the Euro version while castagaging the US version. Got news for ya sport, I've seen dyno plots of both versions and the Euro models made 15 to 20 more HP max, if stock. Not sure if the one you drove was stock, but trust me when I tell you that it's not night and day as you implied. Thoughts on the Enzo seem accurate, I haven't driven on so I can't comment there. His thoughts on the F355 were fairly accurate as well, drive one back to back with a 360 and the 360 feels like it has two more cylinders. MUCH more torque on the low end. However that being said, his worship of the 360 is laughable. Same goes with the S2000. Just because a car "sounds" like it's going fast doesn't mean it is my friend. All bark and no bite. A 360 gets walked by a Z06, that says it all to me. The 360CS, which is god in his mind, gets obliterated at the Ring by a stock Gallardo. Not even in the same category of performance, a CS is over 50 car lengths behind the Gallardo by 150MPH, or approximately four seconds.

    His thoughts on the Acura RSX/Type-R/S2000: Hahahahah those are in your top 20? That's fine with me, you take the Honda, I'll take the Lambo/F355. Sound good? I owned a Type-R, fun little car but dog-ass slow, and a turd below 6,000rpm. Got to love having to drive a car at F1 piston velocities just to outrun a basic BMW 5-series from stoplights. No thanks.

    Overall he called it a biased report, and it surely was. And an "opinion" can definitely be WRONG. If he's out there looking skyward and saying "hey guys the sky is pink" while I'm telling him that no, the sky is BLUE, then he's wrong and that's that. And on many of these points he's calling the sky pink, let's just leave it at that.

    Can't wait to see A.J.'s top 20. Far more experienced with actually owning the cars he's popping off about versus going to "Gunther's Lambo Rentals, No Fieros Here Folks!" which it seems that this thread started did.
     
  17. Aradune

    Aradune Karting

    Jul 11, 2004
    76
    San Diego
    #42 Aradune, Jul 19, 2004
    Frist, before I comment, let me point out a trend in your response: you read it selectively. Many of the issues you point out *I* already pointed out. Anyway, here goes:

    Yep. Agreed. Said that clearly in my original post -- thank for paraphrasing :) Would love more seat time in a 6.0 or Mercialago. That said, I did drive the old VT hard and I stand by my comments.

    I dunno. What kind of NSX do you have? I clearly, if you actually read what I wrote instead of skimming it with rose colored glasses, stated that the NSX that was and is superior to the F355 Spider is the Zanardi NSX. I put a regular NSX-T and older 3.0 NSX much further down.

    The Zanardi is essentially a US spec NSX Type S. It weighs a lot less, and has much better suspension and handling. It is faster and better on the track than the F355. It will do a 12.8/12.9 1/4 mile, and a 0-60 in 4.7 or 4.8 seconds. It has a skidpad of .99. The Type S-Zero and new Type R are even more impressive. Boring? To each his own, but it gives me me great road feedback, has a great center of gravity, and is very visceral -- I love it.


    1. I commented on the overall track times of a 360 vs a 996tt. I acknolwedge the 996tt is slightly faster in a straight line. No clue where you're getting the track times or your mom's driveway stuff -- more silly insults and more evidence you didn't actually read what I wrote very carefully.

    2. I didn't pass a 996tt at Willow in a 360. Again, did you read what I wrote? And, again, sorry, but, well, screw off on the insults about me weaving in and out on the track -- in most circles you tend to lose the debate once you resort to Ad Hominem attacks. I'm no great driver, but I'm alright, and have had lots of track time, including at Big Willow, Streets, Buttonwillow, Holtville, Laguna Seca, and the Nordshliefe. I've driven and been instucted by people like Cort Wagner. Does this make me an expert, no... and I said that. But maybe you should tell us about your experience level as well instead of spouting off?

    1. That's true -- I prefer normally aspirated to turbos in most cases, especially on the track (though the F40's turbo was very impressive). There's lag and a non-linear throttle issues that many (most?) don't prefer. If you like turbos better, though, good for you.

    2. The euro F40 was stock. 15-20 HP plus gearing changes can be significant. That said, if you are correct and have driven both and the us-spec F40 still kicks ass, than I'm glad to hear it, as I plan on buying one one day.

    3. My experience on the track is that a Z06 is compariable to the 360, depending on the driver of course. There is no huge difference as you imply. Methinks you need more track time.

    4. The 360CS seems to be superior to the Z06, but I need more track time, etc. before I have too strong of an opinion.

    5. I'll look up the data on the Gallardo vs. CS. So far I've been impressed with the Gallardo from what I've read. I note that in my post. In a straight line it's fairly obvious that a 500hp car is going to beat a 425hp car, even given the CS's weight advantage. I will look up the Ring times as well, though that is certainly a track (especially if it's a true test and the long straight isn't split in half) where HP is arguable as or more important than grip and handling (for example, Gansan in the NSX Type R did pretty good until he hit the straight where the lack of HP and lame 168 or so mph top speed destroyed his overall time, despite doing great in the corners).

    My list was the top 20 cars I've had the privilege to drive, not the top 20 cars of all time (hardly qualified to make that list), nor the top 20 cars I surmise to be the best based on what I've read (far easier to do, and too reliant on somebody elses experiences). Obviously an Integra or an S2000 wouldn't make it into a list of the top 20 exotic/super cars in the world -- thanks for the newsflash :) Again, you embarass yourself by making it crystal clear that you only skimmed what I wrote and then somehow thought that qualified you to mouth off about its contents. Nice try.

    Yes, clearly someone's subjective opinion after driving a sports cars is analagous to whether the sky is blue or pink. Good one, Einstein. I'm guessing maybe you inherited the money to buy your cars and didn't earn it first hand, yes? :)

    I owned 25% of the cars I commented on, and noted clearly whether on the other cars I'd driven them a lot, hard, or a little, and not hard, and also whether on the street or track. I too look forward to AJ's top 20. In the meantime I'll enjoy continuing to poke holes in you Lambo-zealot's content-lite retorts :)
     
  18. Aradune

    Aradune Karting

    Jul 11, 2004
    76
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    #43 Aradune, Jul 19, 2004
    Actually, take much of that back.

    I withdrawal.

    While at first I felt justified in slinging it back after my post was attacked, it's still not the right thing to do. I sincerely apologize for anything meanspirited or offensive I may have posted.

    I meant to share my experiences with others and to perhaps provide a thread in which others could do the same. Whether others do or not is up to them, and not me, and given that I've already posted my experiences, I'm going to continue read here and elsewhere, but not post to to this thread any further.

    In closing -- here's to the love and enthusiasm I hope we share for all performance and sports cars, and the fact that I think we have much more in common than not in our love for these machines :)
     
  19. 6.0 se

    6.0 se F1 Rookie
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    #44 6.0 se, Jul 19, 2004
    Thought I would check in again. Thats the spirit. I am in the process of compiling my list, but I was missing 2 important exotics that I havent had the fortune of owning. The Mclaren F1, and Enzo. I called Avis, Hertz, Alamo, and the Green one. No one had a car. But Budget told me an Enzo was due back on Sunday from the 7 day special, so I have it reserved. I will thrash it a bit, and we will see how it stacks up!!.......

    I also have a line on a Mclaren F1. My brother knows a guy, and his wife(the guys not my Brothers), works in a big building in downtown Atlanta, and the owner of the building is a BIG car collector. Anyway, to make a long story short, the guy(the one who owns the building) is friends with MR. Copeland himself, the king of Cajun Chicken(read POPEYE"S), and of course Copelands restaurants. Anyway, it looks promising that with enough strings being pulled, I will get to THRASH the F1!!!. I have to fly to New Orleans, but for a proper OPINION on the car, I will do what is required. I will keep all posted!!
     
  20. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    #45 Schatten, Jul 19, 2004
    Good write up. I've enjoyed this post over the last few days. Post more pictures if you have them, even if they are of a rented F40 on the ring. =)
     
  21. Silver99

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    #46 Silver99, Jul 19, 2004
    LOL, AJ you are insane, good work man. Let us know how it turns out, though I suspect I know which car you'll prefer. We'll see if I'm right.

    Aradune: No offense, I'm sure you're a nice guy/good person/all that, but if you're going to post a target up, then people are going to shoot at it. No harm intended by myself, life would be boring if we all saw things the same way. But you do owe Lamborghini another shot, I'd urge you to spend the day behind the wheel of both the Gallardo and Murcielago, I suspect you'll find them to be totally different experiences versus your rented VT.
     
  22. Aradune

    Aradune Karting

    Jul 11, 2004
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    #47 Aradune, Jul 19, 2004
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  23. Aradune

    Aradune Karting

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    #48 Aradune, Jul 19, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. Aradune

    Aradune Karting

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    #49 Aradune, Jul 19, 2004
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  25. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    #50 Schatten, Jul 19, 2004
    oooh, transponder. measuring improvement with every lap. =)
     
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