Mystery puddle!

I had my 91 Mondial out yesterday at a local event. The event was less than 2 miles away from my home....the car remained parked all day in one spot. The car never got close to any type of overheating (never has), but the earth did! The outside temp was at least 115.

Several times during the day I walked around the car (no puddle/leak)...

By the end of the day there was a fair sized puddle underneath the car, simple right? Not.

There was no evidence on the car leaking anything (no residue on the car or undeath the frame and body). None! Yet it could not have come from another car, since mine was parked there all day-5-6 hours.

My car is always parked in my garage which has a tile floor. This car does not leak. So I am thinking the heat caused the fluid to expand and somehow hit the street...but I cannot pinpoint what the fluid is or where it came from. It positively did not come from the wheel but it puddled on the ground right behind the right front wheel (tire). Tough to describe...let's see- it was not on the inside of the wheel/tire but behind the tire area towards drivers compartment and the underside of the car. (firewall area). Upon further inspection I noticed two hoses/tubes that come down the inside of the front wheel well, but both seemed dry.

Obvioulsy I have more "investigation" to do, and nothing else seemed irregular. I have ruled out a joke, and so far no problems with the car. I would just want to track down what the fluid was and if I need to replace a low fluid condition. Two of us looked at the fluid which was not antifreeze but more of an oil which had no smell or real tint.

Since it was so hot, I could not really crawl under the car but I remain comitted to finding the source. It is back in my garage and NOT leaking even a drop...so I imagine the intense heat caused the condition but what the heck was leaking?

Any ideas? If I or anyone else figures it out I will post it here. Thanks.

 

Could it have been the air-con drains?

 

Normally pipes near the front are the air con where it freezes to keep you cool and then defrosts and runs off the pipes leaving a water puddle, but then you would have that in the garage too, Did it have an oily feel to it?

 

Andrewg,

Did not have the A/C on probably should have!

Nitrous, I have never even noticed these tubes...they might be connected to the A/C. Not sure, but they do run down the inside of the wheelwell and are actually secured rather nicely on the inside of the well. I swear this is the strangest thing. I do have one little drop that I was able to detect when I brought the car home, but I looked straight above where it landed on the floor and cannot find anything! it is somewhere in the area where the wheelwell ends and the floorpan begins. There is not even any sign of oil or fluid accumulation.

The substance in question is an oil. Somewhat clear, with maybe a little dark tinge to it. No smell, and pretty clean. It may have picked up the (dark) tint from the asphault it landed on! I does not appear to be very viscious...Brake fluid??? But it is not coming from the wheel itself. It was in the area of the wheel but no where near the rotor/caliper/bearings/axel/etc. Almost at the rear of the front tire.

The good news is that NO dash lights have lit....or could that be bad news. It is if I am flying down the road and my brake pedal hits the carpet with no noticable results!!!!

Not only did I not have the A/C on, but the puddle appeared more than 1/2 way through the day. It was not there for the first several hours that the car was parked. I think the extended temp of 110-115 had something to do with it. In fact it was so hot outside any water that might have be a result of the condensing unit of the A/C would have long been evaporated. We are talking this car was parked for 5 hours after a 5 minute drive!! That is why this is such a mystery!

Strange.

 

There are simply a limited number of fluids in the car.

The coolant will be green, orange, maroon, yellow or some other "don't drink me color." (Just depends on the brand used.)

Brake fluid tends to be closer to what you describe, especially if it has a couple thousand miles on it. Check to see that the master cylinder resevoir cap is tight (but not overtightened.)

There are also oils, obviously...but I wouldn't assume engine oil or transmission fluids to be presenting as such.

And of course, the already mentioned condensation from the air compressor.

I also hate to mention a stupid thing -- but make sure there's nothing in the luggage compartment like a water bottle or chemical bottle (cleaner) that is leaking through the panels and onto the ground!

 

Yep, I too have guestimated that most likely it is brake fluid.

Did not seemed to be water based so I ruled out coolant, and any A/C condensation...especially since the A/C was never on.

Also because I had a complete fluid change done on the car less than 6 months ago, and know it has a "don't drink me color" to it!! This fluid looked pretty clear with a bit of a dark complexion (brown/black or yellowish). I think transmission fluid would be pretty recognizable, and have no business up at the front drivers side wheelwell, unless I really don't know my cars!

And no that was not a stupid thing...the first thing I did when I got home was to pop the "hood" and since I don't have a spare tire (just a tool kit) it was pretty easy to look around and see that there was nothing to be leaking. No bottles of anything, yet I still needed to look just to be 100 percent sure!

I think I mentioned this is the "area" that the leak seemed to be coming from. NOT the rear engine compartment. So what the heck is up there that might leak???? I have already checked the area underneath the steering wheel to make sure nothing is leaking there either.

One last "factoid"...the car was parked at a slight (very slight) incline, so anything that could have leaked from the engine compartment would have leaked backward toward the rear of the car. This leak was clearly coming from an area infront of the drivers compartment/firewall.

Thanks again for any additional guesses...

 

check your battery? is it sealed unit or a water one? the only things up front there are the horn pump, battery and washer fluid tank. aside from the brakes and coolant hoses.

 

Nope not the battery, as it is on the other side of the car and in front of the tire/wheel. This leak was under the drivers side and toward the rear of the tire/wheel. I am currently not where the car is, but I do have the owners manual which is showing the brake and clutch fluid reservoir (all in one??) exactly above the area of the leak...and it looks like their is an overflow or vent tube as well. I think I am on to it.

Because I am looking at this in a general picture in the owners manual it doesn't completely make sense.

1) the Clutch and Brake or "Brakes" fluid (as written) is in the same reservoir?

2) it says to check without removing the lid (cover)...hmmm how can you do that??? Why wouldn't you remove the cover, you might have to add fluid right? I must be missing something here!

Anyway it makes sense that this is where the leak originated, but it is odd that it would have been affected by the heat. Even though it was hot 110-115 I would think that brake fluid can handle much higher temps under use. So sitting idle shouldn't the fluid be be able to handle a heat up to a thermonuclear blast? Why would it burp out?????????

Oh well, hopefully it will make more sense when I get home and can inspect it in person. Has anyone had any experience with this on a Mondi??

Thanks again.

 

This may sound silly but I don't mean it to be. Were there dogs at this show? Would not be the first time some careless owner didn't control his mutt.

If you can't tell what kind of fluid it was and can't duplicate the situation???

 

JDubbya,

Now that made me laugh...out loud. Actually there were a few dogs running around...but I don't think that solves my mystery because of the following;

1) The puddle/fluid was not water based, so unless fido is drinking 40w we can probably rule that out.

2) It was over 110 degrees and the puddle was not dissapating or evaporating. After approx 30 minutes upon seeing it, it did not get smaller, and the asphalt had to be 150 degrees.

3) I stuck my finger in it and it seemed to be an oil based fluid. The person with me "smelled it"...certainly NOT puppy piss! I would say 90% sure at this point (after reading owners manual) that since there is a clutch/Brake res. above the area of suspicion-located under the hood, that the 'mystery fluid' is none other than brake fluid that somehow burped out of its container. I just need to do a further inspection to see if I can determine the how and why.


I do appreciate your out of the box thinking, but in this case there was no dog involved. Just heat + ???? = Temporary drip/LEAK.

Thanks once again.

 

I had a similar issue....according to my mechanic, sometimes the brake fluid expands in the heat. Sure enough the fluid was oozing out of the top of the tank. I extracted the extra fluid with a turkey baster (the wife loved that one) and got it back to the proper level...and no problems since. Of course I check that level frequently now just to make sure. In my case I was able to trace the fluid as it had run down the spare tire compartment and through the drain hole. Perhaps in your case it is finding a different vein. If you haven't done so already...I would try removing the protective cover on the left side that surrounds the fluid tank and have a look in there. Hope this helps.

 

Were you tracking the car?

Once a few years ago I tracked my old 308... The next day, there was a brake fluid leak from one of the calipers themselves!

 

Mike 328,

Nope no tracking! On the day in question I drove my car from my home to an event that was being held at another house less than two miles away. I dont think the engine even got a prolonged warm up. So probably not the case...and I don't think the leak was not from a caliper, as it was at least 12 inches away from the caliper itself.

Peteskie, I think you are correct. I have been away from the car (@ work) and only have the owners manual with me...but from what I am reading here and in the manual, the clutch/brake fluid is located right about the mystery leak(drip). I figured it was not a chronic problem but more of a symptomatic one, aka; the intense heat of the day.

If the fluid expanded due to the heat it had to go somewhere, and since it was not water based, it narrowed it down to just a few suspects. Looking somewhat clear (only contaminated by the asphalt) I was thinking Brake fluid as well.

As you mentioned the reservior is partially covered (you have the same year and model ferrai as I), so upon a quick inspection I did not see a trail. I bet when I get home and remove the protective cover I will see the "evidence"...then again my reservior appears to have a vent tube (does yours?). I did take a brief look at the spare tire compartment to make sure fluid did not damage any of the spare tire area, and found no tell tale signs. Maybe my fluid did find a different vein.

I will ask you this, how do you check the level of the fluid when the manual says do not remove the top. I am going to venture a guess that when the protective cover/shroud is removed there are existing marks for min and max?

And are you using DOT 40 fluild? Inquiring minds want to know!

I put a paper towel down under the suspect area, but as of that night there is no leak. That is why I believe the heat was the enabling factor, but what surprises me is that Brake fluid heats up as the car is used, during heavy braking...how could a 110-120 degree day make the fluid react this way, when braking should send the temps way beyond that on a regular basis?? Hmmm.

Thanks for any further information. I think with your help I have solved the mystery.

Fyrrari

 

David, not sure about the vent tube you mentioned, as far as the level goes, my mechanic suggested the level should be where the seam is approx. 1/4 of the way down from the top.You can see it inside as well when the cap is removed. You want to make sure it is very clean when you remove the cap...you don't want anything getting in the resevoir. Also you want to be careful not to get any of the fluid on the exterior paint...apparently its nasty stuff. If it sounds confusing, let me know and I will take a pic to illustrate better.

As for the fluid, the cap itself specs Dot 3 or 4, my manual(euro model) specs Dot 4 fluid, I trust that is what was used, I'll find out for sure next time I speak with my mechanic....hopefully it won't be for a while

 

Peteskie

Yep mine has a vent/tube. It shows up in the owners manual as well (page G10 US version).

The book also states "The flluid level in the reservior must be checked without removing the cap and must always fall between max and min marks on reservior"

I have known it is nasty, and that is why I popped the "hood" as I was worried that if it ran down the inside it might do damage as well-to my surprise I saw no fluid present...that is why I might venture a guess that it came out the vent tube. I will check tomorrow! Does yours have just a cap? NO vent tube? And yes, no matter what you do, do not get it on the paint!!!

Mine "specs" Dot 4 as well. I may take and post a picture as well as it pertains to the cap and vent. Have not looked carefully "yet" but I am hoping that the shroud comes off easily.

Thanks again,

David

 

David, here is a look at what I was referring to. first pic shows cap on, second pic...arrows are pointing to the "seam" and fluid level I had mentioned. I'ts been over 2 months since my incident and I've had no trouble since.

The shroud is pretty easy to remove...three small screws and it just lifts out.
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