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Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Dark side of the moon, Jul 14, 2012.
I wonder how hard it would be to swap a manual transmission and clutch pedal into these cars.
The transmission is exactly the same as any other Mondial T. I don't think the clutch is different either. The way the Valeo system works is the traditional type clutch is engaged and disengaged by a motor. So probably not that difficult to put in a clutch pedal. But why would you? These are special!
Well if the ECU is not available and can't be fixed that's what I would do. You might fix one trace on the board, and then next week another trace goes bad.
Me, I would find someone to fix it, even if I had to hire an electrical engineer. I think there is a place in Germany that restores ECU's.
But as Alexion said your best first stop is Dave Helms at SR.
You can swap out the Valeo components and make the car manual but that’s sacrilege IMO.
Finding a donor vehicle and the labor involved in converting the manual likely outweighs the cost of any type of problem.
These systems don’t traditionally have complex problems. Most issues can be resolved by replacing a $27 relay or 25amp fuse. In my case the ECU had a leaking capacitor and was rebuilt.
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I don't think the OP's problem was that simple. At least if you had a manual clutch in there, you would have something to use whenever the Valeo takes a dump. The sacrilege is having these cars down, or sitting in the shop. Just an idea.
Wow, you diagnosed the problem from over there? The OP’s problem could be the matter of a blown relay. The systems are so rare that not many people know how to troubleshoot them. That said, they are not rocket science. You need an SD1 and old school mechanic troubleshooting skills. Many people are under the impression they can use later tools to connect to the Valeo but the software is on the SD1 only. I’m not sure how many SD1’s are floating around worldwide but there are less than 10 in the entire United States.
There’s no such thing as having both the Valeo and regular manual transmission. It’s one or the other and I don’t think anyone would want to convert something so special before properly diagnosing and fixing the issue.
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the SD1 software is not really the problem to get, but the older hardware & software it runs on. Dealers do not have these systems anymore. They do not want to keep it up and running as it is physically in the way and space is money. With the current setup of F dealers I doubt any of the Ferrari shops has one left on this planet.
There is only one place in the Ferrari organization that might still have this knowledge and equipment and that would be the classical department. That is also the place where the old Ferrari specialists/mechanics are spending their days. They also make spares if it is not in stock anymore. Obviously this has a price tag let alone to get in contact with this department. I wonder how much effort one needs to do to only get one of these guys on the phone.
If you would have a Saab specialist in the area that would be an option as many of these transmissions are also in a Saab. Not sure if Alexion has tried that and his experience.
Hope you get it fixed so that you can enjoy driving it!
After some more hours the car would drive but the clutch won't go back in the "start-position" to fire the engine up and so the eco will get checked component by component and hopefully this problem is caused by a transistor or capacitor.
My problem is: when the potentiometer on top is build in it may go back to the end but mostly not and it need to be done by hand, when the poti is not in place it always go back into the start position and the engine could fire up.
I could only hope that a part in the ECU is not broken but as bad as it causes that problem; maybe I am lucky or maybe the car should just be to look at and don't drive...
What makes me believe that the ECU is not the problem is that without that poti the clutch actuator goes completely in and out, so I believe that the potentiometer is broken, but nobody not valeo, not Ferrari and also not vishay who build that potentiometer are in the situation to help or even give a hint.
The last Idea for that poti is a car that drives and so could get the values of a potentiometer that doesn't causes any trouble.
The OP had stated that one of the ECU circuit boards was corroded, and some of the traces did not have continuity. Read the first couple of posts.
Sometimes you can wait for several months before a reasonably priced part becomes available. What if a manual setup could be installed in the meantime ? And would the entire manual setup need to be removed in order to switch back to the Valeo ? As the Valeo replacement parts become more rare, these are reasonable questions.
I suppose if you were able to get your hands on another potentiometer to compare values, that might be a good way to deduce the problem.
You might want to open the ECU and have a look. I can confirm my ECU was corroded due to a leaking capacitor and it seems that the OP had a similar issue (so that's at least two of us).
Here are some resources provided by member Porphy in a previous thread:
Here are some German ECU repair companies. Most of them have Websites in English and I would expect them to all speak it.
Tachoreparatur, Navi Reparatur, Pixelfehler, ABS Steuergerät defekt
? Steuergerät Reparatur ? Motorsteuergerät, ABS und ESP, Getriebesteuergerät etc.
Steuergerät defekt? Wir Reparieren Getriebe- Motor- ABS Steuergeräte -Motor-Steuergeräte Reparatur Motor Steuergeräte auch gebraucht - Pruefung & Fehleranalyse zu günstigen Preisen.
Motorsteuergerät reparieren - Die Gehirn-Chirurgen - autobild.de
You can search on the German Google at google.de and search "ECU reparatur" Many have websites in English and certainly will respond to email. You can do the same for French companies using the French Google site Google
If you don't have luck with those, try Dave Helms. He fixed my car last year and it runs better than it ever has. The information is fresh in his head and he's very helpful to customers all over the world.
You're correct, the OP did say that. This thread was revived some time later by Jeff, so we're trying to explore solutions to fix the problem vs. finding a parts car and doing a manual conversion.
Could what you're suggesting be done? Yes, it can. I would estimate it to cost around $10k for parts and labor. Is it worth it? Maybe if it's a one time conversion and you never looked back and you wanted to erase the rare and wonderful history of what makes the car unique.
As far as a reasonable priced part becoming available, I wouldn't hold my breath. ECU's were once for sale on Superformance for around $5,000. I wouldn't buy a used one, I'd have mine rebuilt first.
The solutions are either expensive or relatively expensive, but then again that's the name of the game we play in Ferrari land.
The ECU is currently at a shop that will check each part and hopefully they will find something that caused the issues, when not I believe I need a need pot that means its getting difficult at a new level... But I hope that now the problems are left behind and the car will just run as it was intended the days ago.
Why was the valeo so great and trouble free and the 355 f1 was not. Should the 355 have kept a gear shift lever?
Electromechanical vs. hydraulic
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Hi Jeff -
Did you ever get this issue sorted out?
I just get the ECU back and let me say it still works as before... So I´m open for any suggestion that might help.
Have you checked the 30amp fuse and relay next to the Valeo ECU?
The potentiometer I mentioned previously could be an issue. Can you test yours?
This is the part: https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v6-v8/mondial-group/mondial-t/outside-gearbox-controls/150454-potentiometer.html
If you need one, I have a good used one and will sell it a lot cheaper.
Don't know what shop you sent your ECU to, but have you checked with Dave Helms?
I checked every position mentioned in the valeo diagnosis sheet, the gearbox poti is working exactly as expected.
Only the poti for the clutch is working from 1,5kOhm to 3,1kOhm instead of 1,4 - 4,3kOhm+-20% (4,3kOhm is the perfect match but 20% more or less are still okay; 3,4kOhm are the lowest accepted value) but some parts inside the ECU are now restored and the problem is back to where it was before: the poti on the clutch actuator is not working as excepted and nobody neither Ferrari, Valeo or Vishay (they build the poti for Valeo) are in the mood to help.
I always hear: "we don't have any informations or parts"
Dave Helms sadly never replied to my mail, maybe he is busy.
Hi alexion could you be so awesome and take a multimeter and measure the pins a,b,c,d when you turn on your spare gearbox poti?
I measured the values at the ECU and the values are okay, but after I take the poti out and measured it directly the values are somehow confusing, but because more things are wired together maybe these values are correct, so please help me in this case. Maybe this is the solution for the trouble.
I'm not really sure how to do this and I do not have a multimeter. The potentiometer was bench tested by someone else and it looks like some of the values between the pins are visible in the image on the previous page. I hope that it helpful.
If the ECU is good, actuator is working properly, it doesn't leave too many additional variables. It's either the potentiometer(s) or microprocessor in the gear shift lever. Have you tried switching to different gears to see if they engage and to start the car?
Inside the gearbox pots was a loose connection, I tried to fix it but the problem is still not solved, so please let me know what you would charge for your poti.
Actually, the Valeo uses a "one-off" gearbox case. Notice the lack of upper mount e.g. the t and the 348. While similar to the F355, the Valeo has a different starter mount.
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