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Need gear-head attorney in LA

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Russ Gould, Mar 2, 2017.

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  1. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2004
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    #1 Russ Gould, Mar 2, 2017
    I bought a car from a seller in LA and he stripped a bunch of parts from it before my transporter picked it up. Also he guaranteed (money back) delivery of a negotiable title. That was 5 weeks ago and I am getting nowhere on the parts and have not received a title. So at this point I want out of the deal, need an attorney in LA to handle this for me. (I am in TX).

    PM me if you can handle it or have a recommendation for me.

    Thanks!
     
  2. WJGESQ

    WJGESQ Formula 3

    Dec 30, 2004
    1,477
    #2 WJGESQ, Mar 2, 2017
    At what point did you insure it?
     
  3. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2004
    1,073
    #3 Russ Gould, Mar 3, 2017
    From the day I had it picked up. I already claimed for some transportation damage. But I don't see where insurance will cover the parts he held back, nor the fact that he has not produced the negotiable title that he committed (on the bill of sale) to produce. It's a case of fraudulent inducement, and breach of contract.
     
  4. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
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    #4 19633500GT, Mar 3, 2017
    Russ. What do you mean by "negotiable title"?
     
  5. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2004
    1,073
    #5 Russ Gould, Mar 4, 2017
    I mean a title that the state of TX will accept. The last assignment on the title (or the name on the title itself) needs to match the name on the bill of sale. In this case they do not. I showed the paperwork to the state of TX and they said not acceptable.
     
  6. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 dm_n_stuff, Mar 4, 2017
    Private party sale? You have the title in hand? Just don't have the appropriate matching bill of sale?

    Did the guy sell you a car he didn't own? Seems like a simple fix. If he didn't own the car, it's fraud. Contact California DMV and local police to find legal remedy.

    If it was his car, and the documents don't match up, produce the correct document, email to him to sign and return, fight over the details later. You need clear title to the car, otherwise a tow truck could show up tomorrow, take it away and you'd be out the car and your money.

    What's the value of the missing bits in relation to the entire deal value? if it's small, let it go, fix it yourself and consider it a cheap lesson.

    Getting a good LA lawyer involved is going to cost you $400 or more an hour, and this isn't a one hour fix.

    On the other hand, if this is a $100K+ transaction, then maybe a good lawyer can help. My son's an attorney in LA, I can ask if he knows any gear head guys. Or, contact Art here 2000yellow360 is his user ID. This isn't his ballpark, but he'll know someone for sure.


    D
     
  7. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2004
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    #7 Russ Gould, Mar 5, 2017
    I have rec'd no title. I have a bill of sale that guarantees that the seller will produce a title acceptable to TX, or full refund. Only he has not done so. Approx $12K in major parts not there ... and a bunch of little stuff besides. In addition, photos showed car with custom wheels on car. Only the bolt pattern of wheels was wrong so each was held on with one lugnut; and the rear shocks and springs were not there, the car was held up somehow to prevent it sitting down on the tyres. One halfshaft missing. And so on. Total sleazebag. And the seller is an attorney.
     
  8. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    6,372
    #8 Shark01, Mar 5, 2017
    This is very true....in my case, the husband sold me the car (bill of sale) but the wife's name (they were still married) was on the title......what a mess.
     
  9. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 jimpo1, Mar 5, 2017
    You have a PM.
     
  10. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 dm_n_stuff, Mar 5, 2017
    Given all that you need not just an attorney, but one who will do it for sport, because, going head on with another attorney who is using his own time, you'll still lose more in legal fees than it's probably worth.

    Now, maybe you can get the CA consumer folks to help. Car Buyer's Bill of Rights - California Department of Consumer Affairs

    even though the rules technically apply only to dealers, it may be that lawyers are considered de facto dealers, just like when they act as a broker in a real estate transaction.

    Either way, it's not going to be cheap, and it's not going to go quickly, which really sucks.

    Good luck with this one.

    D
     
  11. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
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    #11 19633500GT, Mar 5, 2017
    Did the bill of sale specify what was suppose to be included in the sale, the wheels that would come on the car, and/or any other "included" things within the (in assuming prior) verbal sales agreement?

    Is the BoS notorized?

    And was the purchase through a broker or the actual owner? Or was he "flipping" hence selling you an "open title" (would make sense the BoS doesn't match the title)

    Either way, sorry to hear about your trouble, the seller sounds like a complete ****
     
  12. RonH

    RonH Formula 3

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    #12 RonH, Mar 5, 2017
    Nope. Lawyers are not dealers. They are unlicensed brokers because that lets them collect fees on the transaction. They would not be dealers because that would make them responsible. You have to remember that they write the laws so it is very very unlikely that there would be a law that doesn't benefit them. 😀
     
  13. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula 3

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    #13 Russ Gould, Mar 6, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    the bill of sale references the ebay ad which showed the wheels on the car and also described the wheels as custom. in the ebay ad the seller also responded to a question "what other parts are not there" referencing a few parts that appeared to be missing in the photos, stating "all the major parts are there including the ones you mention".

    the seller is the prior owner, he is not an intermediary. he never titled the car in CA as the car sat at Black Horse Motorcars for many years and he did not want to pay the sales tax. the title goes back a few owners but was never assigned to him. the last assignment was to "Thoroughbred Autohaus" many years ago, which outfit I think is defunct. in a bizarre twist, the seller signed for Thoroughbred Autohaus as the purchaser even though he did not work for that company. I don't know when he signed, possibly when he bought the car from them, possibly recently. It's also possible the assignment to Thoroughbred Autohaus was fraudulent, ie the seller wrote that in and signed for that company. Thoroughbred Autohaus did not assign the car to him or anyone else on the title, but he has a separate CA DMV form where the car was sold to him. Looking at this form, it appears he filled the entire form out himself ... bottom line I rejected all of this paperwork after consulting with the county here in TX and he committed to get a new MT title in his name on the bill of sale, or "money back".
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  14. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 energy88, Mar 6, 2017
    Now that you mentioned eBay, why not get them involved as it sounds like this was one of their auctions? Don't they claim to have some type of guarantee if the deal goes bad?
     
  15. eastwest7

    eastwest7 Karting

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    #15 eastwest7, Mar 6, 2017
    If he is a dealer I would contact DMV investigations asap.
     
  16. cls

    cls Formula 3

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    #16 cls, Mar 6, 2017
    I have been in this situation with ebay. For the most part they don't want to get involved, but in a case of fraud or clearly not as described, they may. The question is, what recourse does ebay have to get your money back? A quick phone call to them should sort it out.
     
  17. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula 3

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    #17 Russ Gould, Mar 6, 2017
    ebay will do nothing for you unless you use their paypal payment service to pay for the item ...
     
  18. Jeff328

    Jeff328 Formula 3
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    #18 Jeff328, Mar 6, 2017
    997 and AceMaster like this.
  19. cmt6891

    cmt6891 Formula 3

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    #19 cmt6891, Mar 6, 2017
  20. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ

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    #20 Statler, Mar 6, 2017
    He's a member. perhaps he'll make an appearance before threatening to depose every person who posts in the thread.

    oops.
     
  21. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 dm_n_stuff, Mar 6, 2017
    hoo boy.

    Well, on the other hand, the seller is a lawyer. That gives and takes leverage.

    Call the Bar Association The State Bar of California Home Page


    Bring a complaint to them. If he's a practicing attorney, they'll get his attention.

    D
     
  22. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 dm_n_stuff, Mar 6, 2017
    :D

    I'm available for long distance depositions. But I am not going to California. Oh, wait, maybe I will. Can I bring my wife and make a vacation of it?

    And can I bring my son to the deposition? He's an California licensed attorney too!!! Might be a good learning opportunity for him. :D :D

    D
     
  23. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ

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    #23 Statler, Mar 6, 2017
    expensive lesson in vetting people through f-chat.
     
  24. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 dm_n_stuff, Mar 6, 2017
    I just looked at the title, this has been floating around, signed over but un-transferred, since 2002?

    No wonder it's going to be a little difficult to get something for the DMV to be happy with.

    D
     
  25. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 dm_n_stuff, Mar 6, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    And it's a bitsa car.
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