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Need help....Keep 458, or go F12

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by Pazzo009, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. Pazzo009

    Pazzo009 Karting
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    Mar 30, 2014
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    Hello everyone,

    I presume this question has been asked on this forum, and I assume perhaps many of you asked yourself this question at some point. This conundrum (a good one to have I suppose) has been bugging me for months. If you'll indulge me, allow me to give some background for what kind of car guy I am.

    I'm 38 and I have a few cars. I have a E36 M3 that is solely track dedicated. I have a 991 GT3 that I don't use that much now so it is currently for sale. I have a F90 M5 that is used most often. Finally, my Italia. My first Ferrari was a F430, and I got the 458 1 year ago.

    I love cars very much and just want to collect them like matchbox cars. I guess I haven't changed much since I was a kid. Unfortunately as we get older, practicality and responsibility trump the love for toys. I love the Italia. It's a great car, and I have modded it to my liking. I use it for cruises or going on a date with my wife. I enjoy it's agility and other attributes, however I don't push it to the limits because I do that type of driving on the track with my E36....Yet I still have my fun with it.

    That all being said, there are aspects of the F12 that I like. However I've never driven one. Based on my reading and understanding here is a list I've compiled that is making me teeter on getting one eventually.

    458- small, agile, costs less, YOU CAN SEE THE ENGINE (this is a bigee)
    F12- armrest (lol, yes it's important) rare, V12, sound, did I say V12!!!!!!!

    So assuming many or some of you have owned both, what are your thoughts? Based on the type of driver I am, should I stay with the 458, or is the F12 and what it offers still going to satisfy the agility I appreciate in a car, while still having that awesome scream that the 458 falls a little short on?

    I appreciate the help and feedback.
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  2. gilly6993

    gilly6993 Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2009
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    Tough question....I made the switch from a 458 to a Lusso V12 and never looked back....but I needed 4 seats....Having driven an F12 a few years ago while I owned the 458 I can say personally I would not make the switch....the F12 just lacked that little something compared to the 458.....
     
  3. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    The 458 and the F12 in my modest opinion are two completely different cars for different purposes. Since I know there are some people around who own both models you better wait for their knowledgeable opinions.

    Despite of the fact that in terms of lines the 458 is one of my favorite modern sports Ferraris, I've never driven one and therefore I can't express an opinion about the car in terms of the driving experience. Because the F12 happens to be my Ferrari and since I've already used it on long journeys on the road and on the motorway and also on the track, I can tell you what the feeling is . To start with the F12 is a pure GT and a car that you can drive non stop for 500 Km , despite of the fact that mine has the racing seats, and arrive at the destination in relatively good condition with no need to see the chiropractor. The boot is quite spacious and you can fit inside a suite case of a considerable size and also carry a golf bag when necessary. In terms of driving experience is a car that is completely bi-polar. Up to around 3500 revs/minute you are sitting in a BMW sedan driving around town comfortably with zero stress but, as soon as you pass that comfort revs line by pressing the accelerator to the bottom, it becomes instantly, without any lag whatsoever, a very, very frightening and wild creature. It's incredible how easily the F12 reaches a speed of 300 Km/hour, like a jet accelerating to take-off, and when is there and you want more, it continuous to 310, 320, 330 and even 340Km/hour without the slightest hesitation. It's something you have to experience in order to believe and once you've done it, surrounded by the celestial sound of one of the best symphonic orchestras in the world, you just can't resist.
     
  4. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2001
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    Suggest you test drive an F12 before continuing any further. You can collect as many data points from as many other people as you'd like. But at the end of the day, nobody will be able to answer this question as well as you can. But you need some seat time. I suggest that the decision will be quite easy, once you've had a chance to drive an F12. If East Coast weather/roads make a test drive prohibitive this time of year, buy a ticket to Florida, visit a dealer, and drive one. It's a lot cheaper to buy a ticket than it is to make the wrong purchase decision. If, after the test drive, you're still undecided, then keep the 458, buy the F12, keep both for a year, and see which gets driven more. Once your GT3 is gone, you'll have the space for it.
     
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  5. iloveferrari

    iloveferrari Formula 3
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    Love how you make the suggestion with the last sentence.
     
  6. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3

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    OP stated that the GT3 is currently for sale. Go back and read it again.
     
  7. iloveferrari

    iloveferrari Formula 3
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    Dec 14, 2014
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    Oh, even if he didn't plan to sell the GT3, my suggestion would be the same - keep the 458 and sell the GT3, and buy the F12. That's why I liked your post. Hope you didn't think I was sarcastic.
     
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  8. ScottS

    ScottS Formula Junior
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    Agree with y’all. Thing is we all agree with the idea that mid 8s are different animals from v12. Eilig knows what’s he talking about when he suggests living with both.

    Thing about the F12 that a test drive cannot tell you is the dramatic way the F12 goes from docile to beast. For me it can do date night, long weekend, and still own the block for speed and rarity.

    There are many here who went 458-f12 and vice verse (to 488). It’s so personal. And to some of little consequence.

    For me based on what you said, If it’s either or, pick F12.


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  9. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    You mention selling the GT3 and using the 458 for cruises and going out with the wife. Your track and other work is done with BMWs.

    Based on this, there is no question you are ready for a V12. And the best to ever come out of Maranello is the F12. Your wife will love the creature comforts like more luxury room and a cold air conditioner but you'll have to fight over that $3500 drink holder. The sound of the V12 and the force of the acceleration will astound you and your wife. Best uses are cruises and dates and starring at its classic alluring lines. If the engine is big for you be careful when the hood is opened! Its just so massive and perfectly styled. Truly dwarfs the 8-cyls.

    I bought mine without ever driving one and it far exceeded any earthly expectation. Check out a few journalist videos. Test ride is a good idea if possible. Let us know what you decide.
     
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  10. Pazzo009

    Pazzo009 Karting
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    Mar 30, 2014
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    Thank you all for input...It's much appreciated and helpful.

    Driving one I think would be ideal. It's a difficult task because unless there is one is reasonable distance available to a specific spec I would like, I wouldn't want to waste the salesperson's time. Flying somewhere isn't very feasible either.

    That said, I guess another thing that concerns me is will I miss the agility and light feel of the 458. The GT3 will be gone so I would have a GT car (F12) and my M5. My M5 is most versatile and actually crazy fast...But It's large and cumbersome. I like have a counterbalance like a nimble yet luxurious car. So what I plagued with, will the F12 feel big and lack the light feel I also enjoy?

    Unless I'm mistaken it's only 300 pounds heavier or so, albeit it has a heavy front engine where the 458 is mid. That must affect handling, body roll, etc.

    So am I would I just be buying a F12 for the acceleration and the amazing symphony the V12 produces?

    And having a 458 & F12 would not be prudent for me financially at this time.
     
  11. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Karting

    Nov 26, 2012
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    Sweden
    A V12 is a V12, and in my land F12 is more me than 458. Since I own a FF, I could see myself with combination of FF and a 488 Spider. But if I could have only one Ferrari, then it is a V12 Ferrari all day. And yes I do drive my FF daily, even now when we have snow and winter here where I live. YMMV
     
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  12. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Very tough choice. F12 is a little easier to live with. 458 is more of a sports car. The 458 is the most fun car I've ever driven. The F12 is fun too, but its not FUN! like the 458. In our part of the world, you will be able to make use of the F12s talents more often than those of the 458- though I really do drive my 458 quite a lot.

    What about selling the Porsche and M5 and getting a later model year FF. The engine in the F12 revs a little freer and stock the car is a little more vocal, and its a much more beautiful shape, and I think more sports car nimble, but the FF would give you near daily use and the V12. As a replacement for the M5 you are only giving up a tiny bit of stealth and some electronic doo dads. You are gaining the epic V12 and even AWD. And back seats and doors- that could be a big issue.

    So tough choice but between the 458 and F12 I would pick the 458- but that's just me, and I love V12 Ferraris.

    I suppose you should ask if you are wanting more from the 458 and if what you are wanting is more power/ speed then you are heading in the F12 direction.
     
  13. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    The power delivery of the V12 is so dramatic and dramatically different to the V8 that in my view they aren't remotely comparable experiences. The 458 is like a go car to drive as you know, the F12 is more physical, it can be a hill climb bar care needs to be taken because the fearsome power can overwhelm the rear wheels fairly easily and rampant wheel spin can be the result.

    Each is special in their own right.
     
  14. Mikaelreu

    Mikaelreu Rookie

    Aug 26, 2014
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    Do not think about the F12 as a heavy front engine car as stated earlier. The engine sits behind the front wheel axle and car is 100% agile.

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  15. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    Correct but the 458 is more nimble.
     
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  16. FLU

    FLU Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
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    Before I got into an F12 to experience it first hand, I had thought the 458 build quality and solid stance driving feel was overall pretty darn good! After a try in the F12, I now refer to my 458 as a tin can.
    From the way the doors sound when they open and close, the way the car drives like a rock solid chariot, to the deadening of most sounds except for the exhaust. The F12 just oozes quality feel to me.
     
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  17. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    I can tell you guys that wheel spin with the F12 depends on your tires and also your local roads. I almost never get wheel spin here in the North East of the USA, on Michelin tires. One of the amazing talents of the F12 is to make the most of the available grip. Its shocking how often I could launch the car without wheel spin. It just goes. It could almost be AWD!
     
  18. 4_Eff_Sake

    4_Eff_Sake Formula Junior

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    I’ve got P Zero Corsa’s on the TDF and whilst you most certainly can break them loose if you want to, the grip is outstanding, and any decent driver should be able to moderate the accelerator input to the big V12 in line with prevailing conditions to avoid mishap. And the driver rewards in smiles-per-kilometre are worth every cent! Get a V12!


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  19. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
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    To be honest, there is nothing prudent about a 458 or F12 let alone both at the same time. You have some great answers from those that know here. What are you going to do? My bet is you will not be buying an F12. Good luck.
     
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  20. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    Pirelli P Zero, rampant wheel spin up to top of 3rd gear and more so on bump roads. New Michelin tyres have really transformed this aspect of the car and wheel spin is, as you sy much more contained.
     
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  21. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Since you have another car for track use, to me there is no contest - the F12 wins over the 458. The engine is in a different league; the only relative drawback is the weight but it only really shows on the track.
    I had a 599 rather than a 458, and it was a close call between the 488 and an F12.
     
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  22. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

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    Hey guys I really love Tex Mex, tacos and fajitas taste so good. But you know I also enjoy an occasional steak. I’m taking the Mrs. out for dinner Saturday and wondering whether you think we should get margaritas and fajitas or just say eff it and go to an expensive steak house for some chateaubriand and a nice bordeaux.
    Thoughts?
    :)
     
  23. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    Jerry I couldn't agree more. After having used on my F12 the Pirellis PZero and now the Michelins PSP , I can confirm that the former spin substantially more than the latter. On polished and dry asphalt the difference between both types of tires is enormous. With the mannetino on Sport when I pressed the accelerator to the bottom with the PZeros the F12 wheels really spin and the rear tended to be all over the place while doing the same with the MPSS the wheels spin very little and the rear was always under control. The same applies on wet asphalt where the MPSS have much more grip.
     
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  24. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Congratulations! The TDF is a masterpiece! But, I think the TDF is a different beast entirely from the berlinetta. Those Corsa system tires are grippier than the corresponding PZero tires.

    I make no secret that I usually prefer Michelin tires, but I just want to state for anyone reading this that Pirelli have a newer version of the PZero (is it version 4?) That I am told is the equal of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport and maybe even the newer Pilot Sport 4S. I think the last version of the P Zero left some things to be desired, but it appears this new version is excellent. I test drove an 812 on these newer PZero tires, and I loved it.

    Sure, go out for Italian and you won't worry anymore :D:p

    But your point is made- the cars are different. Thus its really what resonates with you.
     
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  25. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Rookie
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    Just go to In N Out


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