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Need help pricing a 430 Scud in today’s market

Discussion in '360/430' started by unhguy86, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. unhguy86

    unhguy86 Rookie

    Feb 10, 2013
    4
    Hi All,
    I have to admit I’ve been more of a reader than a poster, but could really use the community’s help on an asking price for my 2008 430 Scuderia.

    The car was purchased at Silicon Valley Ferrari in January of 2018 for $159k @ 11,800 miles and after 2.5 years of ownership and 2,100 miles, I’m having to free up space in the garage for new car on order. Here are the details.

    2008 430 Scuderia
    13,900 miles
    Exterior- Grigio Titanio nearly perfect- one scratch on lower side of front bumper
    Interior- Nero Napa Leather w/ white stitching and no sticky buttons
    No factory carbon fiber exterior options, but no foggy headlights either!
    Clutch reading at 50%

    Recent Maintenance-
    2018 Odyssey Extreme Battery
    2018 New Tires (1k miles) and TPMS sensors
    2019 New Seamless Clear Bra (full front)
    2019 CeramicPro Coating
    2019 Brake Service and upgraded Brake pads
    2019 Coolant Flush Service

    Here is what makes it hard to price. It has a manufacturer buyback branded title. Per Ferrari the car was in the shop with random engine issues in 2008 and eventually had to have the main engine electronics harness replaced in the first year of ownership. The owner sued and they bought it back. I’m the second owner since the buyback and it’s been a flawless for both me and the prior owner, but the value is much lower due to the title.

    Any thoughts? I was thinking of starting $15k-20k lower than my purchase price from the dealer... does $144,900 make sense?






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  3. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    3,918
    I like your starting point. We have seen high mile cars sell for that recently, so in essence you are trading lower miles for a branded title. I might be inclined to price it at $149,900 and leave yourself some negotiating room.
     
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  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,347
    i think that's very reasonable
     
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  5. PKIM

    PKIM Karting

    Jan 1, 2004
    147
    Redlands
    Full Name:
    Paul
    That's beautiful!
     
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  6. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2004
    4,175
    FL, NY, and MA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Staggeringly. What a car, and at a price at which you wouldn’t feel guilty about using it. Good luck OP
     
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  8. DeTomasoGTS74

    DeTomasoGTS74 Karting

    Dec 13, 2016
    149
    Austin
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Having recently purchased one and following the market for many months, that starting point seems fair.


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  9. lewishou

    lewishou Rookie

    Jun 7, 2008
    28
    Atherton, CA
    What car are you replacing the Scud with?



     
  10. Scottslaw

    Scottslaw Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Damn. I probably should have bought this one LOL! Oh well, at least my title is clean (that's about the only thing though LOL!). Good luck with the sale!
     
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  11. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,008
    #9 freshmeat, Aug 15, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
    Nice to see Thomas’ (original owner that sued) old car still alive and kicking.

    Unfortunately, a branded title is always going to make it difficult to price and sell within a predictable window of time. If you aren’t constrained by a timeline, then you could aim for higher, but sounds like you need to unload relatively quickly and time always screws things up.

    You’ll be looking for a pretty rarified type of buyer, like the one who bought the fleet rental Scud in awful condition off BaT...they’re out there, just rare. I bet had he seen your car before the one he got off BaT, he’d be all over it...he paid pretty much the same price as your asking, but as the car was in poor shape, he’ll ultimately be spending more in the end and also irrecuperable amounts of time. If someone offers anything even close to $140k, take it and run.

    Good luck!

     
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  13. Scottslaw

    Scottslaw Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Guys, I’m right here, ^. ( I can hear you lol!). And for the record, I’m pretty sure the “rule of thumb” for a “salvage title” is 50% of fmv. I’m sure this one is worth more since it is not a true “salvage” but I agree, it will take a special buyer.
     
  14. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Oct 29, 2010
    13,728
    Wyoming
    #11 arizonaitalian, Aug 16, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    Not to speak for Scott (he does a fine job of that himself of course), but the track-rent-a-scud sold for $123,500 on BaT with fees included, not "pretty much the same price as your asking" of $145k. (at least for me, $22k is not nothing)

    So $140's range for this car makes sense as (imho) a premium of at least that much is warranted given the work/cost needed to bring that BaT car to the level of this one.

    If I owned this car, I'd price it at $149k and document its known history (the pluses) and the factory take back thoroughly. It really does sound like nothing to worry about and a "flesh wound" to the title alone (but *prove* that in the associated ads/documents so that everyone sees it). Too bad us humans are wired so funny on this stuff...in reality this car is *physically* worth no less than any other 13k mile similarly equipped scud. The fact that the car had electronic gremlins 12 years ago, that were clearly properly addressed by Ferrari factory/NA/Dealer is less worry in the history than many 12 year old Ferrari's given the usual lack of historical maint records that these cars mostly come with. But the "paper" with the car says that happened and now its stained and worth less? Silly of course (but true, I know).

    Last comment, rather than compare to the 'beat up' track car that has needed loads of work and has loads of miles, I'd work backwards from a 13k-mile same equipment scud and deduct for this 12-year old issue that was remedied. What's the going rate for such a car without the lemon buy back event? 180k? Then take off how much? 20? 30? 40? Really, 40? Hmmm...or is a "clean title" 13k scud not worth 180 these days?

    Anyways, if you can establish some comps of "clean title" cars and then market this one as "save $25k or $30k or whatever over the clean car and know this one comes with full documentation of what was wrong and who/how fixed back in 2008". Anyways...that's what I would do. Comparing to the Las Vegas rental car is imho the wrong place to start (presuming this car here is in great condition and has a great history documented aside from the lemon buy back).
     
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  15. DeTomasoGTS74

    DeTomasoGTS74 Karting

    Dec 13, 2016
    149
    Austin
    Full Name:
    Eric
    A clean titled silver Scud with 13,000 miles is not worth 180 today.

    I put it closer to 155-160.


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  16. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 30, 2013
    2,815
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Eddie
    I've been following the market for the last month as I'd like to get one soon and I notice that most Scuderias have been sitting for a very long time. I haven't tracked too many since I only started recently but on CarGurus alone, half of them have been for sale for 30-60 days and the other half over 180 days! Those are incredibly high numbers which to me suggest the market isn't paying close to asking.

    I forgot to mention the ones over 180 days are mostly over a year actually. Kind of baffling.
     
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  17. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,008
    #14 freshmeat, Aug 16, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    @arizonaitalian You basically said what I said in case you didn’t realize it...”Scott” has the good fortune to be talented in DIY and mechanical know-how so he doesn’t have to bust open the wallet wide open to get his car into comparable condition...anyone else would’ve had to spend “$22k” easily (at minimum!) to get that car even back to decent oem condition (simple parts & labor).

    So ya, $145k is comparatively fair and accurate right?

    And to the tire kicker quoting from “car gurus”, who the hell uses car gurus to benchmark actual sale prices? A red 09 in my area w 8k miles in my area just sold for 195k at the dealership a few months ago just before the pandemic hit, and I have many other actual sale figures more recent than “a year ago” to prove that pristine red 09s are selling in that range.

    I swear every other year these guys just pop out of the wood work, smh...been on here for 10yrs, it’s like clockwork lol. It’s worse than those ppl back 10yrs ago who who never pulled the trigger just to save what? $20k? Pretty insane if you think about it...hope that 2k/yr has been life changing lol

     
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  18. Scottslaw

    Scottslaw Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    I will say this...FM is absolutely correct. I would not say I'm a "talented" diy'er, but I am willing to get my hands dirty, I am patient, and I am good at researching issues and watching youtube tutorials! (and I have a garage lift which makes all of this 1,0000 times easier especially with that damn undertray!) If you are not any of those things then the car I bought would have been a pretty bad idea. But I knew (after alot of research) that I was "probably" going to be able to sort most of the issues (at least the ones that bothered me) with a MASSIVE investment of my own time (which has proven to be accurate) but not too much money out the door). There is no way I would have purchased the car intending to take it to a shop to sort everything that bugged me. It would have made no sense because Mr. Meat is right that I would have very quickly eclipsed the value of a nicer example. And, for the record, if there is a catastrophic issue that I can't sort then my gamble will not have paid off. But here is the thing...catastrophic issues can happen to any car (I personally know of a few "lower" mileage scuds that have also needed F1 actuator replacement/rebuild, so its not like it can't happen to a garage queen too, in which case you got a "double whammy" (high purchase price plus high repair bill).

    I think the above car is a great deal at 150k ish. But it will take the right kind of buyer that has 150k cash lying around for a "collectable" model that most wouldn't want to collect due to the black mark. But, if you don't really care about that and truly plan to keep if for a long time, this car is a no-brainer. Give it ten years and I bet the "taint" of the lemon buy-back will largely be gone too. Good luck to the OP...its an awesome car.
     
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  19. angrybanker

    angrybanker Rookie

    Jun 27, 2019
    13
    Full Name:
    Shivek Ratnasamy
  20. unhguy86

    unhguy86 Rookie

    Feb 10, 2013
    4
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