need help: timing/wires on lp400 1976 | FerrariChat

need help: timing/wires on lp400 1976

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by chevalcabre, Jul 27, 2007.

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  1. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    i took apart all my caps,rotors,wires.....got mixed up with the wires...caps have no #'s on them.... cant figure out what goes where ...spent hours today !

    anyone have a car that can talk to me over the telephone and walk me through their wires and where they go on the caps ?

    would be very appreciated.
     
  2. de993

    de993 Formula Junior

    Sep 10, 2004
    416
    Las Vegas, NV
    I have a 79 so I don't know if they would be the same or not, but would be willing to help. We did find out that the firing order in the owners manual was INCORRECT! Unfortunatly, my car is at the shop doing some last minute adjustments before the monterey trip (long story, but we may be driving it!) so I can't answer anything until Monday. Shop phone # 702-382-5008. I am usually there between 9 and noon. Call me Monday if you don't have a resolution before then.

    DeShawn
     
  3. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
    1,455
  4. xs10shl

    xs10shl Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2003
    2,037
    San Francisco
  5. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
  6. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    if anyone has a car , they can walk me through it and it will take 5 minutes.... or maybe a digital picture of each cap.... then let me know to where each wire out of the car goes to ...on each bank....

    help !!!!!!!!!
     
  7. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    The distributor caps are numbered 1-6.

    Rotation is counterclockwise, opposite to the crankshaft.

    Distributor "A" starts with cylinder #1.

    Distributor "B" starts with cylinder #7

    This all assumes that this coincides with how your particular distributors are "clocked". They are mounted to the camshafts on finely splined fittings. It is possible to set them up many different ways and have the engine run however only one combination will work right without removing the distributors and remounting them.

    Are your distributors still mounted to the cams as they were when the car last ran or have they been removed and run up on a distributor machine?
     
  8. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    they were removed ....at some point....
    my new caps dont have #'s on them...
    do you have a picture of a cap with the #'s on them ?
    do you own a lp 400 ? if you do, can you take 5 min and walk me through the firing order and where the wires go to ?
     
  9. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
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    #9 2NA, Jul 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You are kind of screwed.


    In the photo that shows the caps, the wires that have white tape are cap #1 (don't be confused by the marks on the coil wires). The numbers go around counterclockwise 1-6.

    The photo without the caps shows the distributors installed with cylinder #1 in firing position (18 degrees BTDC). Note the timing marks on crank pulley (you probably don't have any). This is the screwed part. Your timing marks are on the flywheel under the car, visible through the little hole in the bellhousing.

    Installing the wires in the cap is the easy part. Getting the distributors mounted so that they both look and run right is a tricky job. I prefer to set these up when the flywheel has a big degree wheel mounted to it before mounting the gearbox. With the engine in the car it's a bit harder.

    I always make reference marks and take photos before removing a distributor.
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  10. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    i am basically in a sh..ty situation !

    we tried quickly to locate the marks on the flywheel but maybe i need to clean it do we can read the markings....couldnt see any markings....dirt must be covering the markings...

    but, we got the tdc on cyl #1 and # 7 ( which is the 1st behind the back glass on the rt side when standing in the back of the motor...

    now, all i need is the correct firing order for each distrbutor...as they turn counter clockwise.....

    after i get all the wires in the correct slots on the caps, i can start dealing with the timings etc...

    do you have a good closeup picture of the caps with the #'s on them ?
     
  11. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    #11 chevalcabre, Jul 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    HERE IS AN EASIER WAY TO HELP ME GUYS !!

    if someone can compare to their car and tell me for example :

    LETTER A-L caps go to which cyl # 1-12 on my drawing of the 2 heads , i will be set and ready to install all wires correctly .. then i can install the distributors back correctly using tdc for 1 and 7 ......but i can t start anything until i get the wires in order with the correct firing order and location...i got till now 2 difference orders from 2 different people..very confusing....


    A- GOES TO CYL #
    B- GOES TO CYL #
    C- GOES TO CYL #
    D- GOES TO CYL #
    E- GOES TO CYL #
    F- GOES TO CYL #
    G- GOES TO CYL #
    H- GOES TO CYL #
    I- GOES TO CYL #
    J- GOES TO CYL #
    K- GOES TO CYL #
    L- GOES TO CYL #
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  12. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
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    Steve,

    Best advice you will ever receive free of charge: have someone experienced tune this car for you. Otherwise, it will drive like a fright pig and prospective buyers will hate it. Surely, someone can help you.

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  13. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    this is my plan...just need to get the wires in their correct spot b4 it goes to the mechanic monday for fluids and timing,carb ajust fine tuning etc....

    the confusion occured when new wires were getting re-installed on the caps...right and left cap mixed....then all went south ! no stress but hoping to get all the wires/caps back in and send her off monday for the finishing touches .....
     
  14. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    what i need will take 5 -10 min. from someone here that has a car in view....then i am done and ready to go...
     
  15. posteriore140

    posteriore140 Karting

    Sep 24, 2006
    69
    Here you are.
    A- GOES TO CYL #3
    B- GOES TO CYL #5
    C- GOES TO CYL #1
    D- GOES TO CYL #4
    E- GOES TO CYL #2
    F- GOES TO CYL #6
    G- GOES TO CYL #9
    H- GOES TO CYL #11
    I- GOES TO CYL #7
    J- GOES TO CYL #10
    K- GOES TO CYL #8
    L- GOES TO CYL #12
     
  16. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    how many degrees diff between distributor a and b ?
     
  17. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
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    Tim Keseluk
    Please refer to post #5 of this thread. There you will find a link back to the first time I answered this question.
     
  18. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    great news... thanks to all....

    got her running....all is back in place in the engine bay.... she ran for 45 min at idle ....warmed up well...no leaks.... lt bank is well set up ...timing is near perfect...right bank pings a little ...timing is off.. my mechanic will ajust that 2moro ....do brake fluids... and that is all ! i hope... she needs some fine tune on the carbs i think...as she runs very rich .will have him fine tune as much as possible... the carbs were apart and all done..btw, 1-5-3-6-2-4- is the correct #'s ... the other one i got 1-7- ..... was for a single distributor motor... we now know ! cleaned it up this afternoon ...everyone had a great sunday at work ! (rare for us ) ....

    that was a nice exercise ... deadlines can really put a strain on people...trucker wants the car in boston by tuesday..... i will do as much as is humanly possible..then she goes .. the next owner if it sells can finalise the few details to get her perfecto... she is a original car with lots of work put into it....shows very well for a driver condition... very well documented.... I AM NOW HAPPY WITH IT ...

    thanks you everybody for the quick assistance....
     
  19. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    does it make sense that my left rad is at a much lower temperature (my left side runs great and it perfectly timed and ajusted) than the right side (rt side pings and timing is off,+ runs rich) ???

    i figured the rt side runs rich with bad timing, so obviously runs hot.... that same side rad being much warmer than the other side ? is that normal ???

    i used a laser temp gage to monitor everything not depending on the gages !
     
  20. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
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    Follow the pipes.

    The hot coolant exits the motor in the front and enters the right radiator, exits and travels around the back and into the left radiator.

    From there it returns to the water pump and back into the motor.

    Right side should be quite a bit warmer.

    Both fans are controlled by the switch in the right radiator.
     
  21. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
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    Tim Keseluk


    You're welcome.

    The "other one", the single distributor motor is another adventure. Don't be surprised when only one bank runs right and the other sounds like it would rather run backwards. Things are not always what they appear at first glance.
     
  22. chevalcabre

    chevalcabre Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    893
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Steve Maman
    now, that makes real sense...! thanks...

    we are having a hard time finding the marks on the flywheel to set the timings ....flywheel is a little dirty or has light surface corrosion...what is the best way to find the marks ? how do you clean it ?

    what marks do we look for when timing the distributors ? i see the round opening with an arrow ...i can see the teeth of the flywheel , then maybe a little over a 1/4 inch of flat surface...i assume that on that flat surface is the markings to time the distributors ?
     
  23. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2006
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    #23 2NA, Jul 30, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The marks are there on the flat area, next to the teeth (very crude and not really precise). Unfortunately I don't have good photos but IIRC they will be labeled "A" , "PMS" and "B".

    There are a couple of holes in the vicinity of the flywheel and it's possible you are looking in the wrong one. The correct hole is near the bottom on the left side at the joint between the block and gearbox.

    When you get the marks cleaned off put a white paint mark on them so you will see them again.

    "A" is the firing point for Distributor "A", cylinder #1 (18 degrees BTDC).

    "PMS" is TDC for cylinder #1

    "B" is the firing point for Distributor "B", cylinder #7 (18 degrees BTDC)

    "B" is exactly 60 degrees of crankshaft AFTER "A" (30 degrees of distributor rotation).
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  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    You forgot to let him know where to send the check to you for services rendered...

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
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    Cmon now Steve, this is serious stuff that an experienced man should be handling, dont you think? (Ive given this advice once before...)

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     

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