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Need Help with service issue/ car purchase!!!

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Orthoferrari, May 23, 2004.

  1. Orthoferrari

    Orthoferrari Karting

    Feb 29, 2004
    72
    Clearwater, Florida
    Full Name:
    Chris
    I need any opinions on a service issue(dealers please chime in). I purchased a 1990 Testarossa, 15,000 mile from Motorcars international. I paid a premium ($76,500) because I was told by the salesman that it was the nicest one that they had ever seen, major done no problems, etc, thouroughly inspected by their service department. I also passed on several others for much less $60,000-$68,000 because they either did not have the service or many more miles. Well when delivered it was leaking a lot of oil, leaving a 2 foot by 3 foot oil slick whenever it was shut off. I notified them immediately. They did pick it up. Whe I asked who would pay for this they said we will figure it out later when we find out waht is wrong. In addition the idle surges and stays at 5-6000 rpm sometimes. They said this is probably due to the floor mats. I am not that confident in the car now and asked for a major service to be done as it was not done at a Ferrari dealership. The oil was leaking from the upper right front of the engine. It has been there four days and still no answer. What do you think is fair? I understand that used cars are bought as is however shouldn't a dealer stand by their word(mint, nicest one they have had). Should they do the major (they said $7,800) and cover it , split it with me or is it ok for them to just say used cars are as is and its your responsibility?... This would not be good for repeat business as I do change cars frequently, 2 corvettes, viper in the last 2 years. Thanks for your opinions
     
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  3. PeterS

    PeterS Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 24, 2003
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    PeterS
    Well, here is your first lesson!

    "I paid a premium ($76,500) because I was told by the salesman that it was the nicest one that they had ever seen, major done no problems, etc, thouroughly inspected by their service department."

    How much money do you think you put in theis salesmen's wallet?
     
  4. Orthoferrari

    Orthoferrari Karting

    Feb 29, 2004
    72
    Clearwater, Florida
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Please just constructive criticism. I checked around and everybody said they were very reputable.
     
  5. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    14,107
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Matt F
    In my opinion, it would be fair for them to refund your money.

    You could then spend it on one of the other cars you looked at that were between $8,000 and $16,000 less expensive, and pay for the major servicing.

    I believe you'll have the peace of mind you were looking for in the first place, while actually spending less money.

    --Matt
     
  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    44,456
    Texas!
    Chris, you are right to give them a chance to cure, but you may have to turn up the heat. I'd call the GM on Monday and explain your situation. If it gets nasty, tell him that you will be picking up the car and taking it to the nearest Ferrari dealer. If it turns out that the major service was not done, or done improperly, the next sound the GM will hear is from your lawyer.

    Good luck, DrTax
     
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  8. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,842
    Orange County, CA
    Yea, can't imagine that that is what you wanted to hear.

    Seems like you were sold a bill of goods and they should stand behind the car. The car had immediate problems that you called them on and can prove.

    Ask for your money back and you will purchase another more reliable one from them. If they don't go for it tell them that they have to make it right and don't take no for an answer. Don't be afraid to throw your weight around. I wouldn't accept the "we'll let you know later" line.

    Good luck and let us know how it turns out for you.
     
  9. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    1) Insist the dealer repair the oil leak and correct the idling issue. I doubt it's the floor mats binding against something.......whatever it is though.....merely insist they repair it and return the car to you fixed correctly the first time.

    2)You've no right insisting upon a major service, or for that matter any other work, except for what is presently causing problems.

    If you have truly lost confidence in the car and communicated that sentiment to me as a dealer, I would offer to sell you an extended warranty, or offer to return your money immediately, take the car back then get my lot man to drive you to the Saturn store.
     
  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    44,456
    Texas!
    But, if the sales man told him that the major had been done, doesn't that change things?
     
  11. Orthoferrari

    Orthoferrari Karting

    Feb 29, 2004
    72
    Clearwater, Florida
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Drive to the Saturn Store? What is that? I was told this was "the best Testarossa that they ever traded for". Now, if they could not diagnose a major leak before they traded for it then obviously they did not inspect it before they delivered it to me. In fact I don't know how hot oil needs to be to catch on fire because the oil was dripping so much on the exhaust that heavy smoke was coming out of the engine hatch-I thought it was going to catch on fire. This is not a "best Testarossa" I own my own business also and treating people right is what encourages return clients
     
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  13. JC360

    JC360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,015
    NYC...and soon WC 2
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    Jon C.
    I am very interested in how this turns out.
    I am taking delivery on a car and interested to know
    that legally, does the dealer have the right to refuse taking
    the car back for another car, are all sales final?
    This subject is getting me real nervous....
     
  14. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    did you get the detailed service history of the car before you bought? who did the major? how long ago?

    i've never bought anything from them, but i've dealt with M-I on both my 355 and 550 searches. they offered to ship a 355 i was very close on to my local mechanic (from MO to MA) and if i wasn't happy with it they'd just ship it back to MO - no cost to me. definitely not "standard operating procedure" In that business.

    talk to them. be firm. don't be an ****** (at this juncture). if you didn't get the service records or you didn't review them, then that's a bummer for you. if they represented a major was done on date X and that wasn't the case then they screwed up and that's not cool. do you have these representations in writing (fax, email, etc.)? or was it all verbal with no verification?

    is it possible the oil leak occurred during the initial transit to you? something got jiggled loose or punctured?

    maybe things have changed over there, but M-I never struck me as a customer-burning organization.

    doody.
     
  15. Orthoferrari

    Orthoferrari Karting

    Feb 29, 2004
    72
    Clearwater, Florida
    Full Name:
    Chris
    They have been very helpful so far-picked up the car but have been somewhat elusive about costs. All they have said was that it was probably something small which they would cover, however the mechanic sounded like it was coming from one of the cam belt covers/ front main. Doesn't that imply major service/ $$$. I can afford it it is just a question of whats right. Lets put it this way I was viewing the Testarossa a a stepping stone to a 360 or a gallardo. If they don't remedy this situation then my $200,000 grand will go elsewhere! By the way the major was done at Dimmit Rolls Royce and Bentley in Florida. They even provided a print out of it. And as far as this just happening when I looked at the engine immediately after delivery the front had heavy deposits of black grease so I don't think this was a new problem.
     
  16. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2004
    1,330
    SF, Bay Area
    It must not have been thoroughly inspected or you would not have a pile of oil on your driveway when delivered. They lied to you and misrepresented the car. I would return the car and look for one that doesn't have any stories. It doesn't make sense to pay almost $80 for a car and right off the bat get aggravated over its condition.
     
  17. CraigFL

    CraigFL Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2001
    954
    Panama City, FL
    Full Name:
    Craig
    I agree you need to talk to them and see how this plays out before you get too upset. This kind of thing happens in my business too and I don't wan't to come right out and say "I'll pay for it" until I know the circumstances and the problem. It may be my problem, the problem of the person who delivered it or even the custome's problem if some misuse or abuse is involved. The first thing I do is find out what the problem is and then decide how to rectify it. In any of the three cases above, I always try to make the customer happy even though sometimes it comes down to me eating the cost even if it's not my fault.
     
  18. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    DrTax....

    Orthoferrari stated that he had asked for a major service to be done as........"it was not done at a Ferrari dealership"......implying prior knowledge and verification of a major service on this car in the original post.

    Of course, if this car has merely had a "paper service" done, that's another whole story entirely and would change his position......but not with the vendor, as they misrepresented nothing.

    Orthoferrrari.....

    My position remains the same.......they are obligated to repair the leak IMHO and this throttle issue......but that's it. The fact that someone other than a F-car dealer did the major is not their problem either. Maybe Dimmit installed a gasket incorrectly or whatever. Apparently the car was clean enough for you to buy it and this problem reared it's ugly head after it landed in your driveway.....therefore I doubt they can be blamed for not properly inspecting it either.

    I am sure that they will fix it properly as long as you demonstrate a balanced and firm approach with them.

    However, if you still have "no confidence" in a "used, 20 year old design, 12 cylinder, Italian car" (read those words carefully a few times) then it is the wrong car for you, always will be......and no insult is intended, believe me......I sell this stuff for a living and do my best to ensure that prospective purchasers know 110% what they are getting into.....go buy a warranty or a new 360.

    FWIW I am looking for a TR myself.....and am going into this thing with my "eyes wide open" thanks to the extensive technical forum on F-Chat.....consider the recent oil leak on your driveway as the car's way of "marking it's territory".......

    All the best.
     
  19. cmparrenzo

    cmparrenzo F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 3, 2002
    2,685
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Chris Parr
    I have purchased Ferrari's from Motorcars as have several of my friends and they have ALWAYS stood behind them.

    I had my F355 serviced at the dealer (not Motorcars), when it came back it had an oil leak from the cam cover, the dealer replaced it, no more oil leak. These things happen. If Motorcars makes it right, then no harm no foul.

    These are USED cars, not new, since Motorcars stands behind there cars, I do not think this is an issue. But if you want a warranty, buy a new car. A problem that is resolved does not create a situation that makes the buyer entitled to MORE than he purchased.

    Lets wait and see how this is handled, so far it sounds to me as though they have been very open to make everything right.

    Chris
     
  20. Orthoferrari

    Orthoferrari Karting

    Feb 29, 2004
    72
    Clearwater, Florida
    Full Name:
    Chris
    As KDS stated they were obligated to fix the leak and they said they would. After a little contemplation I decided to have them go ahead and do the major again. I really like this car and always like to have my cars in top condition. In addition it seems that this car was a garage queen for the last few years and I intend to drive the heck out of it. They are going to give me some consideration on the fee considering that I just bought it and I am happy with the deal. So I guess I would have to say that I have had a good experience with them. Tnanks to all for your suggestions.
     

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