Need instrument panel gurus help!! | FerrariChat

Need instrument panel gurus help!!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Dzd&Cnfsd, Jan 18, 2019.

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  1. Dzd&Cnfsd

    Dzd&Cnfsd Rookie

    Mar 10, 2018
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    Full Name:
    Justin Weber
    Have a 1995 F355 spyder that has an inoperable speedometer. Have replaced the speed sensor in the transmission and confirmed we have power on the yellow wire terminal on the chassis harness connector for the speed sensor. I have the factor WSMs but am struggling with the way the wiring diagrams are arranged. I have had a speedometer shop confirm the speedometer head is capable of operating.
    Do not currently have access to an oscilloscope. Is there any other way to check for the speed sensor signal at the cluster connector?
     
  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Ian Riddell
    #2 Qavion, Jan 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
    I guess you could do basic continuity checks of the wiring.

    Here's a user-friendly diagram for the 2.7

    Figure 5 ... Instruments (2.7)

    There are 3 plugs to look at in the wiring:

    The 12 pin plug labelled "41049" near the left rear shock absorber (signal wire is pin 5). i.e. red-white wire.
    The next plug is inboard of the passenger footwell relay panel (labelled 41024). You may need to remove the leather "saddle" forward of the centre console. Look out for hidden screws (don't try to pull the saddle off until you have all the screws out, or you may break something. It's the upper white 20 pin plug (signal is on pin 18). On left hand drive cars, pin 18 is the third one down from the top left hand side of the plug. You still haven't filled in your profile page, so I don't know if you have a left hand or right hand drive car.

    The next plug is on the back of the speedo itself in the instrument binnacle (but I assume you already know where that is because you've had the speedo checked). Again, it's the red-white wire.

    If simple wiring continuity checks don't find anything.... worst case scenario, I guess, is the part inside the gearbox which triggers the speedo sensor.

    Tell me about it. I've been trying to make sense of them (and redrawing them) for the last 4 years.

    Regarding your previous post...

    Is this your boss' car, too? (or were you referring to your wife?) :p
     
  3. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    Nov 30, 2005
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    Eric DECOUX
    No need for an oscilloscope, just use a DVM and push your car slowly. You should see an alternate of high voltage (>7V) and low voltage (<1V).
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    Bad plug wires, wrong plug wires or badly routed plug wires on the 5/8 bank can interrupt the speedo signal.
     
  5. Dzd&Cnfsd

    Dzd&Cnfsd Rookie

    Mar 10, 2018
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    Justin Weber
    I thought so too, and I have checked it with a DVOM at the instrument panel connector, there is nothing. Can't remember the exact reading but it was not cycling and was less than 1 volt and did not change at all with speed.
     
  6. Dzd&Cnfsd

    Dzd&Cnfsd Rookie

    Mar 10, 2018
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    Justin Weber
    Well we did do a timing belt on the vehicle but the speedo worked after it was all reassembled. I will make sure they are still all intact and in place.
     
  7. Dzd&Cnfsd

    Dzd&Cnfsd Rookie

    Mar 10, 2018
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    Justin Weber
    I am about to start investigating farther. I had found the pin fit at the speedo sensor to be very loose. I just removed the terminals tightened the pin fit and reassembled only to be disappointed. It did not correct the issue.
    The vehicle is a customers car. I was an employee at the shop at the time we did the timing belt work and since then have taken ownership of the business. So at the time my boss and I were grateful for the the assistance in getting it running. I honestly don't think my wife would want to own or drive this car....lol
     
  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    There is nothing particularly unique about the speed sensing system on the F355. I vaguely recall, however, that one of the user systems (downstream of the speedo) has been known to cause problems. After the speed signal is sent to the speedo, the speedo divides the frequency by 2 and then sends this on to the Motronics ECU, the suspension ECU and the F1 gearbox ECU (if applicable).

    Anyway, let's stick to the basics.

    Gearbox reluctor >>> Speed Sensor >>> Plugs and Wiring >>> Speedo >>> other speed using systems.

    Sorry, I don't know if we're teaching granny to suck eggs. Did you check the resistance of the red-white wire from the speedo plug to the sensor plug? Another loose pin/socket may be causing the low voltage. I don't know what ohms are to be expected. They can vary a lot depending on how good your engine-chassis grounds/earths are (maybe you could just use a long piece of copper wire to complete the test circuit, rather than using local grounds/earths). If the resistance is more than a few ohms (copper wire should be milli-ohms), then try breaking up the wiring into sections (The easiest plug to get to is the one behind left hand shock absorber actuator). Look for bent or corroded pins. Check your engine-chassis earths. Clean and tighten up as applicable.

    You've been told the speedo is ok. You've also replaced the speed sensor, but there's no guarantee that the new sensor is working. Here's a detailed tutorial on how to test Veglia Borletti Type 1 & Type 2 speed sensors: http://www.dinoplex.org/instruments/vegliaspeedosensor/ (courtesy of dinoplex.org) Follow all the safety instructions (including the use of a resistor in series with the meter) or you might damage something. You can wave a bit of ferrous metal in front of the sensor to watch the voltage/current go up and down.

    Thanks for your honesty. Some FChat members might object to offering advice to commercial operators, but in the interest of getting a fellow Ferrari owner's car back on the road ...
     
  9. Dzd&Cnfsd

    Dzd&Cnfsd Rookie

    Mar 10, 2018
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    Justin Weber
    Okay guys I appreciate the help. I may be a technician but we all share a passion for cars and I am always looking to share any knowledge I have with anyone needing assistance and grow my knowledge of cars from anyone willing to share, regardless of the manufacture.
    So I went back to the basics. I checked the signal from the sensor at the junction connector behind the left hand shock. I found the signal was staying high and never pulling low. (Thank you Qavion for the diagram that was actually informative.) I then removed the sensor to inspect the reluctor wheel. I confirmed the reluctor wheel showed no signs of obvious damage, and then something caught my eye. It was the original copper washer that I though fell out when I removed the original speed sensor. So the new sensor was installed with two gaskets/washers. Needless to say the speedo works now that the sensor isn't pulled away an extra mm. So this was another case of stupidity on my part, hopefully my mistake can help someone else in the future that is why I wanted to post the results of what was causing the speedo to still be inop.
    Thank you Qavion for the link of the sensor checks. I have already bookmarked the site for future reference.
     
    Bob in Makiki and f355spider like this.
  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
    Excellent! Thanks for the follow-up and the tip. Yes, these sensors seem to be pretty fussy about clearance (especially the crankshaft sensors which have to be shimmed).
     
  11. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    Grant

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