Need photo of '1 year old' 328 timing belt | FerrariChat

Need photo of '1 year old' 328 timing belt

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Jedi, Oct 22, 2008.

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  1. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    #1 Jedi, Oct 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi all,

    Does anyone have a photo of what the smooth side of a 1-year-old (installed
    for that time) 328 timing belt should look like? I ask because I have my 328 in
    for a Major (at Alfa of Tacoma - Carlo doing the work). Supposedly my car
    had a Major a year ago August (at a reputable dealer with paperwork to 'prove
    it').

    At issue: Carlo says that on belts that are MUCH older, and you can still CLEARLY see the
    white Ferrari writing and numbers on them. On my belts, you can BARELY make
    it out in just the right light in only a few places, not all over the place on the
    older belts he showed me (but of unknown age).

    I'm getting them changed of course. But I am curious what is up here.... if
    my belts are a year old (which, based on LOTS of other gotchas we have
    found in the last 8 months, I highly doubt!!) why is the writing totally gone?
    The teeth look 'just ok' - clearly worn. It seems my 'one year belts' should
    look a LOT nicer than this picture would indicate.... I'm really just trying to
    confirm my own suspicions that in fact, these are very OLD belts!

    I would be curious to see if anyone has a photo of a KNOWN 'one year' belt
    smooth side that I could see. Used search, but only found the tooth side...

    Thanks for any insight,

    Jedi
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  2. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    Franklin E. Parker
    Miles would be more of a factor than age...
     
  3. Jeff328

    Jeff328 Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2006
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    My timing belts were 6 years old and had 10,330 miles on them when they were last changed. The printing on the smooth side was very faint. Without my reading glasses on I could not see it. The edges of the belt were perfect, no fraying or pieces missing. Same for the toothed side, no teeth had any parts missing or chipped corners, etc. Those belts were originally installed by Lake Forest Sports Cars, a Chicago-area Ferrari dealer.
     
  4. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    #4 Jedi, Oct 22, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2008
    Sorry - guess that does matter :)

    In the 'year' the belts were driven the odometer advanced 4000 or so miles. How
    many were actually driven of course is unknown!

    Jedi
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    #5 Rifledriver, Oct 23, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
    Many variables at work and very hard to pin down. Your tensioner bearing has very little wear on its outer surface suggesting very few miles since bearing replacement.

    Color is a tough thing with a photo between camera differences and monitor differences but from here the cad plating on the tensioner bearing looks to have little wear.
     
  6. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    I have six year old belts on my car and the lettering is plain as day. I don't think it will establish anything.
     
  7. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    I think it establishes that miles driven are indeed a better indicator of wear in some cases than time. ;)
     
  8. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    If we looked only at visable wear as an indicator of viability, and if that was a good enough indicator, we would all be well off. Unfortunatly it is not visable wear that is our undoing, it is the internal structures, the invisable fibers and materials within the belt that cause the sudden failure of teeth to shear off or the belt to unravel. And we cannot see inside it. Too many good looking belts have let go and destroyed engines to ever assume looking at them is some indication we can drive on a ways farther.
     
  9. blmjumper

    blmjumper Formula Junior

    Jun 18, 2006
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    Jedi,

    Just had my belts changed 5 yr with 5k and they looked substantially newer than your "one" year old belt.

    FWIW...I've got pictures, but it might be a bit till I can get them to you.

    PM me if interested.
     
  10. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    #10 miketuason, Oct 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  11. ferraritech1

    ferraritech1 Rookie

    Mar 19, 2008
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    Kevin Nguyen
    Hi,
    From the picture, that belt looks very old to me. There are after market belts that don't have prints all around the belt or Ferrari prints on them.
     
  12. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Please be careful with those unmarked aftermarket belts
     
  13. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    #13 Jedi, Oct 23, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
    Update: I went down again today and the belts are all off. Yes, they are
    Ferrari belts - but the writing is almost entirely faded. The inside of the
    teeth grooves are as shiny as can be from wear. Fortunately no rips or
    structural issues that could have 'popped' at any moment.

    But sorry - ain't NO WAY the belts that came off my car are only 1 year
    and 4000 miles. I was shown several other old belts (one at 7 years, 10k
    miles or so) and it looked WAY newer in both the printing and the 'shine'.

    But oddly one of the tensioners is NEW - the other not! No question they were replaced
    recently. Carlo thinks they looked at the old belts and said 'hey - these look
    fine - just put them back on'. Given all the cracked hoses, dried out and
    brittle ignition wires, wrong or missing clamps everywhere, etc. it would not
    surprise me at all. They just changed one tensioner, put the belts back on
    and that's all they did.

    So perhaps a Major WAS done a year ago - Carlo's and my best guess are
    that the seller said 'do the absolute MINIMUM that you can still list as a Major
    and not a thing more' so that he could have documentation before selling.
    Just plain a sleazy mechanic working with a sleazy seller.

    Caveat emptor.... at least my 328 will be near PERFECT when this is done.

    Jedi
     
  14. robbie

    robbie F1 Rookie

    Aug 26, 2005
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    I just picked up my 1988 328 today .. its second Major in 28,000 miles (first one on my dime). I took one of the belts which was 7 years and 5000 miles old. You asked about the backside printing. Although the printing is now yellowed .. probably from heat .. I can clearly read Ferrari, Dayco, Do Not Crimp, serial nos. Made in EEC .. all the printing is easily visable.
     
  15. Fiat4Fun

    Fiat4Fun Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2008
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    Bob
    mostly due to the fact that I am thinking of having my belts done in the spring. You mentioned " that a dealer" did the earlier work, are we talking about a independent repair shop or a factory dealer?

    I have talked to a local repair shop and just talked to my local Fcar dealer. After reading this thread, and some advice from others, I am thinking of the Fcar dealer, due to the experience level.

    I know there are many great independents that have Ferrari trained techs, and I wish they were closer to me. However, the Fcar dealer has the experience, and at least I know that I will have a Ferrari mechanic working on the car.

    I learned many years ago, with all things; A JEEP. Having the Jeep dealer work on the car for all the major services, as the jeep mechanics know the car, since they work on them all the time and know all about any "strange" things that should be looked after.

    I have worked on Fiats all my life. All the cars that I worked on that others had messed with, I always had to fix what others tried to do. I found that if the car was repaired like it was originally, it was way more reliable. I really feel this why Fiats got such a bad rap, as many of the folks working on them had no clue on what they were doing...........
     
  16. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    Dont fall into the mistaken assumption that a good dealer always has Saintly mechanics. People are still individuals, and the greatest person could be having a bad day. Its not an excuse, its just a data point. And likewise, just because you have a reciept with a bunch of parts listed from a great dealership, its no guarantee those parts were ever installed. Getting back old parts doesnt mean they came off YOUR car. If your not seeing the work getting done, all you can hope to have is faith.

    If the condition of those belts is telling you they are older than you were led to believe, there is only one truth.
     
  17. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    +100 on all! That's why I had asked to be called by Carlo before the belts came off
    (and any other important parts) so I could take 'before' pictures. This gives me the
    comfort level of actually seeing my OWN part removed and the new one go on.

    The supposed Major on my car has paperwork from a very major West Coast Ferrari dealership.
    I happened to be at their location a couple months back and they looked up my VIN and
    found the Major in the computer. But as you said, great dealerships don't always have
    saintly mechanics. I'm sure someone looked at the 'old' belts and thought there was no
    need to put new ones on.

    Jedi
     
  18. robbie

    robbie F1 Rookie

    Aug 26, 2005
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    Re: Dealers. In this part of the country (SF Bay Area) if you come in with anything older than a 360 they will turn you away. They are not interested in the older cars. In fact, they usually do not have a mechanic that knows about the older ones. This is why you need to find a quality technician who specializes in the older models .. check him out and become good friends with him. Be cautious though .. there are independents who are not skilled. We are lucky out here in that there are several great technicians .. our own RifleDriver is one in the East Bay area.
     
  19. mike

    mike Formula Junior

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  20. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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  21. 328_aussie

    328_aussie Rookie

    Apr 11, 2007
    1
    I would suggest fresh belts and and a quick once over for peace of mind. Enjoy the 328. Ive had mine for 5 years and havent had any major problems over 30,000 km's .....
     

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