That is my favorite. What holds your injectors in the lower manifold? Gravity plus o-ring? Or is there a bracket? Aaron
There are adapters that screw into the intake manifold (2v manifold is threaded) .... injectors are held in the adapters with a seperate little tab/bracket. I plan on playing with boost at some point so I wanted to make sure the injectors and adapters were positively locked in the intake. cheers
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76848&highlight=308+efi&page=5 post #96 in the thread above has a pic of just the bung with the injector in it ... how time flys ... that was back in January '06.
Not quite 12%, I'd say... My GT4 (Euro, weber, 2V) makes 219 rwhp with X-OST muffler and black stallion electronic ignition. This is at around 7000 rpm. We didn't go beyond 7400 on the dyno... FWIW Hans
yes, but the dyno run was made at 6000 feet above seal level. and that number was up 12 % from my last dyno run without the EFI (probably due to engine wear).
Some very nice installations here. I've done EFI conversions on other cars and can attest to what others are saying - improved drivability and tunability over just about everything else, with useful increases throughout the range. But this thread has me thinking about a GTBi now. I've been keeping a close eye on the cars for sale and have not found one I really liked yet, but I've been limiting myself to a late QV. But a nice GTBi will be $10-15k less than a comparable QV and that's a lot of breathing room. So here's my question. With a conversion like Nick's you'll end up with performance and drivability as good or better than a QV, for a total cash outlay less than buying that QV (maybe considerably less). Will that hold value in today's market? Or will one of these EFI cars still be worth approximately the same as an unmodified one?
they do say the report is normalized to sea level - but that is just another factor to botch up....and different engine configurations behave differently to altitude changes - so it is hard to generalize across the board. i still have many tweaks to do to my system yet...
I'm seriously considering replacing my webers with a bunch of Jenvey throttle bodies (http://www.jenvey.co.uk/ or https://www.burtonpower.com/product_main.aspx?dets_product.aspx?PSet=97&sTxt=jenvey) They come in 40, 42 or 45 mm. Which one to pick? I presume that if I don't want to take the cylinder heads off, I cannot port them, and if I don't port them, I'd be best of using the 40 mm versions??? Or am I seeing this all wrong? Thanks!! Hans P.S. with my Dino still at the paint shop, I cannot measure its Webers. These Jenvey T/B's are 59 mm (2-5/16") tall, which seems a bit lower than the webers are. Does anyone know (or could anyone measure) how tall DCNF's are?
Get the 45s and port the manifolds to match. Unlike carbs, there really is no disadvantage to having a TB larger than you actually need but you lose hp if it's too small, so err on the large side.
Okay, sounds good! What kind of hp gain can I realistically expect by going from 40 mm Weber to 45 mm TB? Thanks! Hans
196rwbhp is fantastic with 9.25:1 compression and with those cams. I am sort of doubting the lobe centers could have been played with any further for any top end power. Still, very respectable. About 236 ish at the flywheel with great drivability
Replacing CIS with EFI is like replacing a musket with an AR-15, just a no-brainer. When I first started fiddling around with CIS, I found the amount of force required to move the air metering plate quite alarming, and the corresponding lag in throttle response hardly seemed fair to associate with the marque "Ferrari". So I did an EFI conversion, using the Holley 950 ECU system, the original 308 throttle body, and Ford/Denso 24 lb injectors. The air metering plate is gone, and so is the throttle lag, now if I can just get it to pass smog. The EFI system you see here is a bare bones, proof of concept breadboard, using hardware store, hand made parts, a cheapo system just to show that it works (it works well) but I would never drive it on the highway like this, soon I will replace it with real stainless steel plumbing. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here is a dyno sheet using a TEC gt, I had said 165 on the torque, it actually was 180. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Nick, Is there a reason the stoich is low? Do you need to run that rich to get the power? I'm following this closely as I am considering TEC myself. I'm not really concerned with power... I'm more interested in driveability. Rick
The torque and horsepower don't appear to cross at 5250. Why is that? Or am I reading the graph wrong?
Mine: At sea level (roughly). 1974 Euro spec GT4. 4 webers. X-OST muffler, Black stallion ignition at OEM ignition curve. 213,1 RWHP. Whoohooo!!! Image Unavailable, Please Login
yep -time to clean the engine compartment, but here is mine. another Norwood conversion. the thick aluminum fuel rails give the motor a sort of GM TPI look, but its alot better than the thin spaghetti-like fuel lines of the bosch system. you need the spacer behind the throttle body for it to work. you cant see it in the pic, but i have a braided fuel hose connecting the right side rail under the t-body(or would that be the left side???), just like the hose that connects the rails from both banks at the rear of the engine. i was criticized for the braided lines looking out of place once, but i like them. the braided lines in this car takes me back to those older Norwood conversions from the magazines that set the speed records and made his cars legendary. i also replaced the throttle cable a couple of months ago, the spacer presented NO problems. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Your car makes good power Hans ... that would be euro cams with .350" lift yes? Also what compression are the early motors? Here's my dyno curve ... 211 rwhp, 180 ft-lb ... only internal mod is high compression pistons. Stock cams, plenum and throttle body. Wasn't there talk at one time that increasing compression would not necessarily increase peak hp just tq with same fuel? Image Unavailable, Please Login
No idea about the lift on the cams. Yes, they are Euro. The car is Euro. I AM in Euroland.They are the stock cams, as far as I know. Compression is 8.8:1 No plenum here. Just 4 double webers and a very open airbox (without that sissy sound deadening stuff inside). Oh, and a K&N air filter... And yes, I'm HAPPY!!!
I wonder what your dyno chart was like with those hot cams you had in then! I think we see a larger than usual compression increase with these engines because we start out with more cam than our 8.8:1 is prepared to handle correctly. Early carb cams with 235 dur @ .050 and stock compression is not nearly taking full advantage of the cam due to compressions. A big small block Chevy or the like would never run a 235 or 224 dur cam with only 8.8:1 compression. I could be wrong, but this is how I see it.
Lol sissy I love it. Your bhp is listed in DIN and we have no idea how it was setup, but regardless I am glad you are happy. Dyno is a good tool
Okay, how does 165 mph (indicated) and still accelerating sound? 7800 rpm in 5th was enough as far as I was concered. Oh, and it was mid Februari and cold. With my window completely open. Didn't dare take my hand off the wheel to push that window button..
that was the 11th run of about 24 or so. the AFR was not that rich per the LM-2 in the exhaust, we couldn't his O2 sniffer to match the LM-2 calibrated value. It was actually 13.8 at idle and 12.5 WOT. going leaner pulled down hp/tq so I went with what gave us the best performance. the RPM is hard to read as it is on the left side on the graph not across the bottom, that's the MPH. also due to the waste spark the dyno-jet was having a hard time keeping a consistent RPM signal, which is why the HP graph looks like it does. I tuned the EFI to the torque curve as that is measured directly and that is also what you feel. we had about a doze runs with a good signal. the 308 is an absolute blast to drive with the EFI 'upgrade'. Now if you want CRAZY! add a blower! or ring up Mark for a V12
