need professional help with a 355 valve job | FerrariChat

need professional help with a 355 valve job

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by cannillo, Oct 30, 2010.

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  1. cannillo

    cannillo Rookie

    Nov 6, 2005
    8
    I have a 97 355 with low compression (135lbs) in one cylinder and we pulled the head to investigate the problem. It turns out that the exhaust valves in cylinder #2 weren't seating properly and had play in the valve guides for the two exhaust valves. The car also has 45,000 miles and doesn't burn, leak oil nor have a miss. I'm assuming this is the valve guide issue that everyone's been talking about. I sent the head to the machine shop for a valve job but I need to know how far to go to rectify the problem properly. The guides are a goldish copper color. The machine shop said all the other valves were fine and the intake valves were perfect. Plus the compression was between 180 and 190 across the board on the other 7 cylinders except for cylinder #2 were it was 135lbs.

    Here are my questions, do I need to replace all the valve guides and seals. All 40 of them or just the ones that are bad. Plus I don't want to have to take off the other head if I don't have to, espcially since there's nothing wrong with it. I don't want to have to spend an extra three or four grand doing all the valves and both heads if I don't have to. Can I just properly fix the problem at hand (the bad valves) or do I have to go thru everything which will be super expensive.

    Again, this problem occured at 45k miles and I only discovered thru doing a compression test, the car ran fine before this. I would also appreciate help from professionals who've been down this road before, not hear say.... Thanx!!!
     
  2. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

    Aug 17, 2008
    1,627
    Ventura, CA.
    Full Name:
    Greg
    I would suggest that you do a search in the 355 forum for a member named "Enginefxr." He's associated with S&R Exotic Motorworks in Liberty, Indiana and has many posts related to the 355 valve guide issue. S&R also has a website with contact info. Just Google the business name exactly as I have provided it. Good luck!
     
  3. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    870
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    T. Monma
    What were the recommendations for proposed repairs put for by the practitioner?
    He IS a professional.
    Would not his concerns and experience trump those of majority of posters?
    If he doesn't know, and or, ypou don't trust him, then the heads are in the wrong place.

    You MUST have trust and a working relationship with the subcontractor...If you think you are getting "screwed", then you are in the wrong place-period.

    From a strictly technical perspective...the exhaust valves cool ONLY when they come into physical contact with the valve seat, amnd as such, they live a rather rough life in a hostile environment.
    Intake valves life in a constant stream of intake charge with a bath of vaporized fuel, they do not see the same sort of heat/environment as do the exhausts-harsh it may be, nothing like the exhausts.
    the guides on the intakes-in my own experience-seem to wear at a faster rate than do the exhausts doe to the unique angularity of the lobes...the "outers" seem to wear the fastest/greatest than do the other "three" guides.

    If it were ME-ALL valves and guides would be replaced-and seats as required...thats just me, and I do this sort of work for pay....largely on racing Ferraris.
    I have not doen a 5 valve head in 10 years, as there is too many "opinions" by non-machiunists aS TO WHAT TO DO...
    I mysely DO NOT-personally-"negotiate" technical issues...its my way or the hiway...
    For there to be no real hard and fast descriptor as to what he will accept as a line in the sand is a bit of a flag...to me anyway.
    This assumes that you have told the "whole story"(see above comments).
    Saving a couple of thousand dollars NOW will pale in comparison with dissatisfaction in 2 years or 9000 miles if one of the other valves or guides that was deemed"good enough" for now goes bad...there will be bad blood, hard feelings, and untold thousands required to repeat the process in order that the job be "done right" once and for all.
    good luck,
    CIAO!
     
  4. Buxton

    Buxton Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2010
    484
    Full Name:
    B Buxton
    How long will you keep the car?
     
  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,734
    As to replacing only the guides that are measurably worn, this, in my opinion, is pound foolish without being the least bit penny wise.

    As to fixing the engine properly: At this point you are already $6-8K (maybe even $12K)into the process (engine pull and refit, and the $1K+ head). Of this $6K is the engine pull and refit.

    So if you don't fix the other head it will cost you another $6K to pull the refit the engine again in a dozen thousand miles. Or, you can fix it right the first time. On one hand you save a couple thou and take the chance of wasting a handful of thous. Pound foolish again.

    Either way, the other side of the engine needs a "leak down" test to see if the other head needs work (too), here, a compression test will simply not do.
     
  6. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,809
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Brian
    I would not offer any option but to do both heads properly. Total agreement with this post.
     
  7. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    The only way I'd be inclined to do just what it needs now would be if I could do all the labor and deliver the one head to the machine shop. If you are having all the work done and the engine is out, it's time to clean up the known issue so you'll be good in that area forever, or you can share the info with the next owner.
     
  8. enginefxr

    enginefxr Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2007
    1,753
    S&R Exotics
    Full Name:
    Gary Sharpe
    ALL of the guides and at the very least, all the exhaust valves need replaced. And the seals of course.
    You won't notice any oil consumption or see any smoke, the seals do their job pretty good.
    But I guarantee you'll feel a big difference when the heads are fixed and the cam timing is set correctly when it's put back together.
     
  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,586
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Cannilo,

    Nobody can tell you what to do because it is your car and we are not in your shoes so we do not know what you are up against.

    It would be bad karma to do just the one head and only the guide that is needed. But, that may be the best for you if you are really short of cash.

    A good job would be to do both heads, replace the valve guides and any valves that need to be replaced.

    The excellent job is to replace all the exhaust valves as well.
     
  10. dlsh1

    dlsh1 Rookie

    Sep 29, 2010
    24
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Seth Fellman
    S & R have a great reputation. I was going to have them rebuild an engine but decided to purchase another on instead. Gary builds and rebuilds race car, boat and 355 engines. Good Luck
    Dlsh1
     

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