need some help for 308 GTB wetsump price

I recently read on the Hagerty Valuation tool that a dry sump engine was valued at 20k USD extra Alberto, that is on a Vetroresina car. Maybe there is some difference in a certain country ?! Then of course you have the thing of this engine being not original for the car, and you know that today even an aftermarket steering wheel is a no-no. I would not be surprised if some buyers would want to negociate a discount of at least 20-25 k euro.

But ANOTHER 308 ???

 

I wouldn't even consider it; the main interest of the "euro" 308 GTB is the dry sump engine; a buyer would value the original engine ("matching numbers", so to speak...) over a replacement engine of the exact same type. Here we have a replacement engine of a different type. That's a bit too much in my book.

Rgds

 

I agree. To me it doesn't matter if it's a Ferrari engine, it's the wrong engine for the car. From a buyers standpoint I would value it even less than a US spec GTB of the same year simply because it is a Frankenstien.
I think it would be fine (or at least less of an issue) if we were talking about a low production vintage Ferrari modified by the factory, but as a Fiat era car (modified by a dealer) all of the premium is in the dry sump bragging rights and originality.
If you are a prospective buyer of this car I would price out replacing the engine with a dry sump and deduct that, plus an additional smaller deduction as even with the correct engine it will never be as it left the factory. To me this would be similar to a car with accident damage that was correctly and professionally repaired. No practical real world difference, but on paper still it is still a strike against the car.
As we move from an enthusiast market to an investor market these little things will matter more than they rightfully should.

 

Hog wash. I like my wet sump car and could car less about the "euro" engine. Does not go any faster or turn left or right any better. Pure hog wash.

 

The better question is why did they change the engine

 

Greg,
this is no question, but your car came from the factory with a wet sump engine.
In a market where originality fetishists debate about correct washers and nuts or rivets, a wrong engine is a 'no-go criteria' and I totally agree with Bruno (nerofer).

Best
Martin

 

I'm sure you like your car, but that has nothing to do with market value. You may not value a dry sump engine or deduct for not having it, but the average buyer will. The OP is asking about potential market value impact, and I think the opinions offered here reflect a likely outcome.

 

car is imo 25% less than the same car with its old original engine

this is not intended to derespct the wet sump car, is just that this car has no more its original engine and no more even the correct original type of engine. also the engine they put in it is considered less "special".
all minus points for value

 

And...good luck finding a dry sump engine anywhere for $20-25K. No way. If there is one somewhere, it's probably in a collectors spare collection and has already been rebuilt and would cost $50K or more...maybe way more.

 

+1

"Not matching numbers - not worth anything"

That's the rule about Ferraris.

 

It's a sad state of affairs that people now buy these cars for the matching numbers, the originality etc and worry more about how they should store them than how best to drive them.

It's all over this forum, but fortunately not so much in the 308 section.

 

Exactly my point; it is not a question of the value numbers in themselves, but a question of having been told exactly and honestly what it is and how much you have paid for it when you bought it, AND not being stuck with something that no-one would buy if you have to sell.

In Europe, the fact that the "euro" 308 GTB has a dry sump is well known and one of the main characteristics of the car (even if the dry sump does not change anything in term of power: in fact, the TUV measures in Germany during the seventies had the wet sump GT4 engine at 235 DIN and the dry sump GTB engine at 227 DIN...)

A dry-sump 308 GTB is not that rare today in Europe; someone wanting to buy one will have to shop among three or four different cars, before making his choice; the chance of a wet-sump 308 GTB to find a buyer is very, very small, even at a largely discounted price.

Rgds

 

That's my point; these are cars, they are meant to be driven rather than being museum pieces or assets. It shouldn't matter if the numbers match or not.

 

But it does, to most buyers.
Unfortunately or not, whether we like it or not: 308s are no more entry level Ferraris. So perhaps it shouldn't matter, yes; but actually, it does.

That's the market as it is today.

So if someone wants to buy a car with the "wrong" engine, fine be me; but he should be aware that:
- that car would be much more difficult to sell, should he have to sell, or decide to sell.
- the price should be adjusted in consequence.

Once these "caveats" have been pointed out and understood, the rest doesn't matter to me. Since the dawn of ages, Ferraris have been very different things to very different men; some have never been driven at all.

Rgds

 

But both approaches are valid. Its perfectly fine to buy a car for less money which has mismatched engine numbers or might have been modified and drive the crap out of it.

Also fine to pay more for a car which is concours correct and original and drive it less.

I tend to favour the latter approach because in terms of simply driving the car, a Lotus Elise for example will do everything these cars will do and 10 times better. So there is a limitation to the satisfaction to be had from the pure driving experience. There is far more to ownership of these cars than that though and that becomes apparent every time you open the garage door.

 

I know a guy who has a 308 with a 328 engine and 328 front/rear fascias. It's definitely a "Frankenstein", but he knew that when he bought it, and bought it very cheap.

I'm not sure if the 308 in question here is *that* much of a "Frankenstein", but with the incorrect engine for it's type, the price should be adjusted downward significantly - for better or worse, like it or not.

Similarly, a car my Dad once owned was recently restored with the correct engine type, but wrong s/n - and a replacement block, at that - and it was Classiche certified. So it seems the factory is less concerned about these things than are the enthusiasts. FWIW.

gp

 

The car in question could be an excellent opportunity for a buyer who is not at all concerned with collector hoopla and just wants a 308 to own and drive. I say 'opportunity' because the non-correct engine change will significantly affect the value much like an accident history (regardless of how well repaired) just follows a car around and is reflected in resale prices. If the new buyer does not care then good for them but they would be foolish to pay full market price for a car that is less than 100%.

We can complain all we want that it shouldn't matter and that it is a shame, etc. but in reality we are selectively applying our personal preferences. Realistically the market price of a 308 is not the product of some logical calculation but there are some absolutes that cannot be ignored.

 

The thing to do now would be to buy it, and have Classiche cast the new dry sump block.

It is only a matter of machining, the difference between the two systems.

Gather it up, Albert!!