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Need to vent!

Discussion in '612/599' started by unotaz, Aug 25, 2009.

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  1. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2006
    494
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #1 unotaz, Aug 25, 2009
    Alright, a few weeks ago, I took my car in to the dealer to fix the leak that I had described earlier. It turned out that the leak was coming from the front engine gasket, which needed to be replaced. The parts weren't expensive, but the amount of labor required to get to the gasket is astronomical! While they were working on that, they discovered that the pulley (harmonic balancer) was cracked, which prompted for new parts to be ordered, except this part was not available in the U.S. So I had to wait for the part, which took an additional 1 week to arrive.

    So....after a long three weeks in the shop, I finally picked up my baby this afternoon and after 30 minutes of driving, another problem occurred! After topping my car up with gas, my electronic fuel gauge all of a sudden started to indicate that I had zero gas in the car, when in fact, I knew I had just topped off. The OBD would jump from showing the normal fuel level to an empty tank randomly. Of course, with this error in place, my car started showing the dreaded "Engine Control System Failure."

    So, after some discussion with the service manager, it looks like I will be needing a new fuel tank (or something related to it, I can't recall the exact name of the part he told me). All of these issues are starting to concern me, as I think about the potential nightmare scenarios where my car is out of warranty (it's an 08 model, so it still has warranty).

    All in all, I'm still happy about my car (not too happy about Ferrari's quality tho) and I have to say the service at Ferrari of Houston has been top notch. Special thanks goes to Giuseppe and Nolan, whom has been taking care of my car and ordering the parts for me.
     
  2. drgek

    drgek Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2004
    1,142
    Full Name:
    Gary
    #2 drgek, Aug 25, 2009
    Are you sure it's not the fuel pump, which is somehow related to the sender? It was just replaced on my '08 599 and is apparently prone to failure. Mine started by triggering an Electrical Systems Failure light, then the Engine Control System Failure. 10 days later, ECS Failure again, this time the mass O2 flow sensor required replacement.

    Like you, I wonder about Ferrari quality control, but have nothing but praise for my service department (Continental Ferrari/Maserati. Hinsdale, IL.)
     
  3. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2006
    494
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #3 unotaz, Aug 25, 2009
    Actually, I just saw the same msg that you mentioned after my drive tonight. Along with the typical Engine Control System Failure, I had this new msg "Electrical Systems Failure."

    Is it the fuel sender that gets replaced or the fuel pump? I have no clue!
     
  4. drgek

    drgek Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2004
    1,142
    Full Name:
    Gary
    #4 drgek, Aug 25, 2009
    Check your PM
     
  5. vnttg

    vnttg Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2007
    262
    CA
    #5 vnttg, Aug 25, 2009
  6. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2006
    494
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #6 unotaz, Aug 26, 2009
    Just got my car back from the dealer and it is all fixed. Got a brand new fuel pump (luckily, they had it in stock) installed and reset the error code. Looks like 599 are prone to this type of failure. The dealer had the fuel pump replaced on 8 different 599s. Yikes!

     
  7. drgek

    drgek Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2004
    1,142
    Full Name:
    Gary
    #7 drgek, Aug 26, 2009
    Glad to hear it's taken care of. Exactly the same problem mine had.
     
  8. ferrarirafi

    ferrarirafi Karting

    Oct 16, 2006
    112
    rutgers, egypt
    Full Name:
    joe smith
    #8 ferrarirafi, Aug 26, 2009
    neosky
    if you read my posts this is a very common problem with the 599...I had the same issue at 1200 miles, and it happened again last week at 3200 miles...there is another member in the tampa community who has had the same problem twice as well...sorry to hear but it will probably happen again
     
  9. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,611
    San Antonio
    #9 VisualHomage, Aug 26, 2009
    good to know about the 599, and I'm happy for you about the timely resolution ;)
     
  10. kole

    kole Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2005
    334
    #10 kole, Aug 26, 2009
    Seems like I need to keep the mileage on my car below 1200 miles to avoid the problem
     
  11. drgek

    drgek Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2004
    1,142
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    Gary
    #11 drgek, Aug 27, 2009
    For you, Kole, not a problem. :)

    Give me a call when you have some free time.
     
  12. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Formula 3

    Oct 24, 2006
    1,085
    Highway to Hell
    #12 Lone Wolf, Aug 27, 2009
    599's have so many problems its freaking amazing.
    what we put up with!?!
    pay more, get less
     
  13. Ferrarista3

    Ferrarista3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2007
    4,595
    MC/UK
    Full Name:
    Carlo
    #13 Ferrarista3, Aug 28, 2009
    It partially depends on luck...most 599 owners seem to have more positive experiences.

    I know of a man in Italy who has done 90K miles with a 599 in the last 3 years with no issues and only regular maintenance.

    Our 599 has been driven 6K miles in the last 50 days with 0 issues.

    Many other Fchatters have had similarly positive experiences with the 599.

    Hopefully you guys will have any issues sorted out and will be able to enjoy many thousand trouble-free miles with these V12 beauties :)
     
  14. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2006
    4,185
    Plantation, Florida
    Full Name:
    Alfredo
    #14 oss117, Aug 28, 2009
    These cars need to be driven: the more the better !

    Garage queens have problems !
     
  15. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    37,995
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    #15 ross, Aug 28, 2009
    you have monday or friday cars, and you have wednesday cars....wednesday cars work better if driven. mon/fri cars will never be completely worry free. you know which kind you have...
     
  16. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2006
    4,185
    Plantation, Florida
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    Alfredo
    #16 oss117, Aug 28, 2009
    Our gasoline and ethanol mix could also be a factor for so may fuel pumps and fuel sending units failures.
     
  17. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2006
    494
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #17 unotaz, Aug 29, 2009
    That might be true, but this begs the question: How come this is not happening to the other manufacturers? Namely, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Porsche...

    I definitely think Ferrari need some 5S and Six Sigma in their production management! However, I recently put on a Tubi on my car and every time I start my car, it puts a big smile on my face! I guess that's pretty priceless...

     
  18. rberg32

    rberg32 Karting

    Mar 14, 2007
    245
    #18 rberg32, Aug 29, 2009
    I'm assuming you have a 612? I have a 08 612 OTO and it has been nothing but problem after problem.. the fuel sensor is a recall issue, so that will be an easy fix, but if you are having problems on top of all that, it may be time to start writing FNA and submitting your Lemon Law forms to TXDOT.. that's what I'm having to do.
     
  19. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2006
    4,185
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    Alfredo
    #19 oss117, Aug 30, 2009
    Right, I know the feeling, but going back to to your question: why Ferrari and not the others?
    I believe it has a lot to do with who is representing the brand here in the US.
    It is difficult for a MFR to know in good detail every change that is taking place (I am referring to the mix of gasoline and ethanol in this particular case, but there are other issues as well) in every Country where they are selling their products.
    That is the job of the representative or the agent in each Country.
    When it comes to Ferrari, there is no doubt in my mind that FNA is doing a lousy job, from the technical point of view as well as Customer Service and PR.
    And the lousy job they do affects us, the customers as well as the reputation of the MFR.
    Ferrari should have cleaned the house in NA a long time ago, IMO.
     
  20. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 5, 2002
    26,141
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    #20 donv, Aug 30, 2009
    When did that recall come out? I had my 612 OTO in the shop about a month ago, and they didn't mention anything-- there were updates for the HVAC and the Bose stereo, but that was it.

     
  21. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 5, 2002
    26,141
    Portland, Oregon
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    Don
    #21 donv, Aug 30, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
    Some of it comes from the size of the installed base. If you have an installed base of 500,000 Camrys, you're going to encounter problems fleet wide much more quickly than if you have 1,000 599s. Heck, Toyota probably builds more pre-production Camrys than Ferrari will build TOTAL 599s.

    Furthermore, I bet on average the Camry fleet acquires far more miles per car than the 599 fleet, thus increasing this effect. The total Camry fleet mileage is probably more like 1000x the 599 fleet mileage.

     
  22. drgek

    drgek Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2004
    1,142
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    Gary
    #22 drgek, Aug 30, 2009
    It DOES happen to other manufacturers:

    1) The air conditioning in my wife' Audi Q7 has NEVER worked properly. Apparently endemic throughout the line.

    2) I had a '95 BMW 740iL which needed a new engine at 25K miles. Thousands of the '95 V8s were replaced in warranty because BMW didn't engineer it properly to deal with the reformulated fuel in the US.

    Anyone else care to chime in with their experiences?
     
  23. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,692
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    #23 VIZSLA, Aug 30, 2009
    BMW 335s are notorious for bad fuel pumps.
     
  24. speed racer

    speed racer Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2008
    1,462
    Burr Ridge IL.
    Full Name:
    PJ
    #24 speed racer, Aug 30, 2009
    1999 Porsche 911 Cabs were known to have their cloth tops torn by the control arm hook that both secures and releases the metal panel that covers the fabric when the top is both lowered and restored. It took Porsche more than 5 years before they admited to a possible defect in the mechanism and a recall ordered.
     
  25. rberg32

    rberg32 Karting

    Mar 14, 2007
    245
    #25 rberg32, Sep 1, 2009
    Not sure, but when I took it in for one of my many complaints, they said that was one of the items they had to replace because of a service bulletin put out regarding these faulty units. Not sure if they have the ability to determine which version of the sensor you have without pulling the fuel tank out..

     

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