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Need VIN-specific MSRP documentation on Ferrari letterhead

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by jelliott, Jan 5, 2021.

  1. jelliott

    jelliott Rookie

    Mar 8, 2010
    21
    Seattle, USA
    Full Name:
    Joe Elliott
    Surely I'm not the first person to be faced with this issue—I live in a state (WA) with nontrivial vehicle registration fees which I can normally laugh off because they're based on the MSRP and a depreciation schedule that says any car >13 years old is worth 10% of its MSRP. But I learned when I registered my '86 Mondial 3.2 last year that the state evidently doesn't have an MSRP for an '86 Mondial in their database and that the fine print in the law allows them to tax it as though it were a brand-new car with an MSRP of what I paid for it! So (unless I choose to put it on collector plates when plates are due for renewal in the spring) I'm paying like 4x the registration fees that the law nominally calls for!

    The licensing agency tells me that they can get this sorted out with the state only if I can get something on Ferrari letterhead stating the original MSRP specific to my VIN. Does anyone have a contact at Ferrari that might be able to help with something like this? Should I just call my nearest dealer?

    Thanks,
    Joe
     
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  3. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    11,067
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    Your dealer may not have been in operation in 1986 so you might find it easier to call FNA straight off
     
  4. jkstevens2

    jkstevens2 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2015
    223
    Winter Park, FL
    Full Name:
    JK Stevens
    I dont know if this will help your situation......Here is a scanned image of the original bill of sale for my 1986 Mondial 3.2, sold at Ferrari of Los Gatos, California in 1986. The previous owner had a pile of paperwork and garage receipts and this was in it. Needless to say, I saved everything.

    Have you thought about the Montana registration concept. You only need to create a business corporation within Montana and you can then register your vehicle. From my understanding there is no sales tax and registration is modest. Hope this helps!
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Sep 3, 2002
    5,587
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    Call your nearest graphic designer and have them whip up something for you. You decide how honest you want to be with the number. Going through Ferrari will be an exercise in frustration and nobody will be paying you for your time either.
     
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  6. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2012
    4,140
    street,md
    Full Name:
    fred brown
    It will take some digging but I got a reproduction window sticker made for my car. Has the serial number and everything. I didn't need it for anything other than putting it under the wiper at a show and people reacting to a 65,000 dollar 1985 car. It was done by some one here. If you need I can try to look back on who did it. Good luck
     
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  8. jelliott

    jelliott Rookie

    Mar 8, 2010
    21
    Seattle, USA
    Full Name:
    Joe Elliott
    I had been hoping a window sticker might do the trick. Now I'm not so sure, since the DMV evidently wants a letter from somebody on Ferrari letterhead, but I'd still be interested to know who did yours (and I'd need to know what the MSRP for my '86 Coupe really was). Thanks!
     
  9. Twosherpaz

    Twosherpaz Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 25, 2014
    582
    Thermal, CA
    Full Name:
    Private
    California bases it on what you paid for the used car, so no sympathy here. So are you saying that an F50 would only be taxed at ten percent of original sticker?! Dang. That’s better than being based on the three million purchase price of the used car.
     
  10. jelliott

    jelliott Rookie

    Mar 8, 2010
    21
    Seattle, USA
    Full Name:
    Joe Elliott
    We still have to pay a one-time sales/use tax based on the value of the vehicle when we purchase it, but yeah, for purposes of renewing the plates every year, an F50 would be taxed based on ten percent of the original sticker. It's a pretty sweet depreciation schedule for those of us who only own old cars, as long as you only own one or two; as someone who owns four cars (and actually wants to rotate them through daily-driver duty, as opposed to garage queens on Collector plates [which don't pay this tax]) it starts to feel a little silly as compared to, for example, a fuel tax (which would actually be proportional to my use of the roads), since I can only drive one car at a time.
     
  11. Twosherpaz

    Twosherpaz Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 25, 2014
    582
    Thermal, CA
    Full Name:
    Private
    I’m considered a fool or worse for following the rules on my over 70 cars here in California. I think it is wrong to not follow the law but am viewed by most car collectors as an idiot for not setting up bogus fronts to reduce heinous and unfair registration and sales tax fees imposed by this state.

    It would be one thing if the entire nation had such draconian rules, but for there to be a 99% difference in sales tax and registration fees between say California and Florida is just disgusting. I literally have paid millions of dollars more to have the identical collection than someone living in Florida. And ongoing registration fees more than $250,000 higher.

    My dealer even joked that I was the only person in California that paid sales tax on their Chiron.
     
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  13. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Moderator Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    9,213
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    I sympathize. It sucks. Congrats on the Chiron though!

    Whaddaya doing in the lowly "Mondial" forum?

    :)
     
  14. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    15,289
    Fredericksburg, VA & Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    John
    Wouldn't NADA have it? Virginia relies on NADA for their valuing of cars.
     
  15. Incaico

    Incaico Karting

    Jun 13, 2020
    61
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    JR Sandoval
    I have a friend who knows someone with some graphic experience and can help...
     
  16. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
    3,988
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    Joe,
    For your first registration you'd pay sales tax on what you paid for it at the time of registration. However past that, it would be based on the state's value assessment.

    BUT, why worry about paying yearly fees? Register it with a Year of Manufature (YoM) plate or a collector car plate and you only pay once and never again.

    The cars has to be 30 years old to do this and NOT be your daily driver. Both my X1/9s, my 400i, my Alfa Spider and soon to be my 348 are all done this way.

    So hit eBay and start looking for a really nice 1986 plate. The 1986 plate would look like this, similar to the earlier plate where the Washington is embossed into the plate, but it is flat and reflective.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    They won't allow you to use the later one (like on my 88 Spider below) or an earlier one (like on my 82 X1/9 below).

    On my X I run a really nice 1982 plate and my Spider has a 1988 plate.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
    3,988
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
  18. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
    7,627
    Paris , France
    Full Name:
    Olivier
    Millions for 70 cars ? that's crazy. Since I'm french I'm completely stranger to those taxes

    For exemple, in cali, what will it cost (Roughly) for a regular production brand new Ferrari, let's say a 812 ?
     
  19. Twosherpaz

    Twosherpaz Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 25, 2014
    582
    Thermal, CA
    Full Name:
    Private
    9.5% sales tax upon purchase, 0.45% per year registration fee. So about $50k tax on sale and $2,500 per year registration. But for a used Enzo? $300,000 on sale, $15,000 per year registration fees.

    But being French, I was just reading the current Evo magazine about how carbon taxes are now so high in French, Renault cannot even build a sporty coupe. A forty thousand car can have twenty thousand carbon emissions tax penalty in France. Even California has not invoked that. Yet.
     
  20. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
    7,627
    Paris , France
    Full Name:
    Olivier
    Thanks. Considering your fleet, if you move to another state, California will get bankrupt the next day :D
     
  21. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 9, 2014
    3,773
    Frisco, Tx
    Full Name:
    Sid

    $2500 / yr for registration? Holy Moly.

    I pay $100 here in Tx -- and that includes a fee for a personalized plate. It'd be about $49 without the plate.

    This is for my 85 Mondial.

    It's about the same fee (minus the personalized plate fee) for my DD F150, my wifes DD X3, and her 85 MB 300D.

    Sid
     
  22. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
    3,988
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    As mentioned, in Washington any car 30 years or older on a historic or YoM plate pays nothing per year.
     

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