Need your opinion on a recent service on my 328

I bought our 89 328 with 10k miles on it in AZ, 1 owner car, pristine. Took it immediately to Scottsdale Ferrari for the full 30k service including belts. It ran great for the last 9 years we've owned it, flawless throughout the power band. Moved out to Florida, took it to a local shop, I'll leave the location and name off for now, still working the problem so won't drag their name in the mud until I have to. I debated having it shipped to the nearest Ferrari dealer, Atlanta Ferrari but was convinced by the local shop that although they mainly worked on Porsche's they had worked on Ferrari's and had done the major service numerous times before. I got the car back and here are some of the issues.

1. They put it on a dyno and said they adjusted the fuel mixture to get more performance. The car now when you start it idles so low I have to give it gas to keep from stalling. After running the car for about 20' it is ok though. Now the big problem. At RPM's below 4k it bogs down horribly. You give it gas and unlike before it seems like the car is flooding out. It then hits 4k RPM and things smooth out and there is a rapid acceleration, almost like a turbo charger is being applied. I have driven it 3 times, about 300 miles, since the service was completed 7 weeks ago and it hasn't gotten better.

-Could an incorrect fuel mixture be causing it? How do I know what the correct factory setting is when I take it back to him to fix it in the next week or two?

-I noticed over the years the exhaust comes out the left side of the 328 much stronger than the right side, evidently that is normal for 328's. Well, now the exhaust for the 1st time comes out noticeably stronger on the right side with barely any out the left. Could the exhaust have been hooked back up wrong, can't see how but is that possible?

-I noticed itemizing the bill that no spark plugs were on it, I'll spare you the back and forth with the owner but he then added the spark plugs to match Scottsdale Ferrari's part number and referenced me to the box of old parts they saved from the service they did. I was so upset at the $9000 tab and 7 weeks it took to do the major that I just looked in the box, saw a few and took his word for it. Today I was so frustrated driving the car that I went back and noticed only 5 plugs were in the box, not 8. I then noticed they were different manufacturers. If they left the old plugs in with 9k miles on them, could that be causing it, can't see how seeing I did not have the performance problem taking it in?

-Could it be a bad distributer cap or something else?

Guys I need your input. I have babied this car, want to keep it pristine. It's running like a pig and I am trying hard to give this shop the benefit of the doubt but I am not trusting them. Any ideas what the problem could be so I can be more educated when I go into get it fixed in a week or two?

 

$9k at a independent for a major on a 328 is crazy unless they did a whole lot of nonroutine work. I pay slightly more than that for the TR and that requires a lot more labor for the R & R of the engine. When I had my 308 and 328 I think the majors ran about 4 - 5K What all are they claiming they did to the car besides messing up the fuel mixture?

 

Sorry to hear about the frustrating experience.

It sounds as though the base fuel mixture setting is off and the sensation you're getting is the engine working it's way through an extremely rich off idle setting.

I've worked with similar drivability issues before, I'd expect that returning the mixture settings to factory will solve the problem.

It's also possible that grossly misadjusted camshaft timing is a factor, but based on your comment about them 'dyno tuning' the car I'd aim for fuel mixture before looking too far into the barrel.

$9k is a pretty big number for the 328 belt service as well. Did they pull the motor and perform a re-seal or did they charge you a ton of money for the "dyno tune" that may've not been helpful?

 

Can you give a list of what were done in the receipts? And what parts were replaced?

 

Adjusted the mixture to get more power on a Dyno?

Snake oil I think.

The only adjustment you do on a 328 is to check the mixture at idle which you do with a gas analyser to give you the correct CO reading at 1K rpm.

If the car was basically working OK when you gave it to them then it sounds like they've messed up the equilibrium of the mixture & idle settings as a minimum - or left some piepwork disconnected or loose so that the system is no longer air-tight (it need sto be to work properly).

At this point I'd take the car to an authorised dealer & get them to give you a report.
I would have thought they could also sort out the way its running for you as well fairly easily.

What you do after that depends on what they tell you I guess - but if they find your $9K service wasn't worth more than $9 then maybe you take the appropriate legal action.

A sad tale & I hope it works out for you. I know sometimes its difficult to find a good shop & we are lucky here in the UK because the place is reasonably small & we have authorised dealers & I can count about 6 or 7 recognised Ferrari specialists within a 40 mile radius - but none the less, I guess this just shows you don't give a Ferrari to a "general" shop to work on. Recognised Ferrari specialists or dealers only.

 

odd that they were doing any performance tuning, being is supposed to be a major service interval

it's possible the fuel is out now, but the syptoms you mention, would lead me to double check the timing first,
even one tooth out on one cam, can give some odd behavior yet still drivable, like that you mention

is there a dealer or shop someone can suggest in your area, to inspect the timing and work done?
that would give you a solid proof should you need to go after them for some refund

 

LOL posted at same time

 

DING DING DING


WE have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




To the OP.

They F'd you pure and simple and I usually give the benefit of the doubt. In a case like this, if it went down the way you say there are really only 2 choices here to make.

1. They are totally incompetent boobs.

2. They are dishonest and incompetent.


Your choice.

They took a good running car and screwed it up. All that was really required is to take a bunch of parts off and install new parts without changing any adjustments and you would probably be happy. Not really a good service but you would not have gone backwards.

And you paid dearly for the privlege.

 

I am sorry to hear this bad experience, 328 should be relatively simple to maintain. $9K should cover a lot of good work. The shop must finish the job.

 

Indeed, and you are right on the cam timing too - but it sounds like they've messed with the CIS setup and screwed it up.

The $9K bill is a bit eye-watering though

 

you sent your car to the wrong shop. Take your car to a competent service provider. Then send the 2nd invoice to the original shop and make them pay it.

 

The only thing with the bill was they did have to replace the radiator and said they could not get a factory one. It was about $1500 which is correct so taking that off with tax would put the service around $7500. They took $500 off and threw in the Dyno since it took so long.

The reason I took it to them was that it was local, I did not have to get a truck to freight it up to Atlanta. Plus they said they could get parts cheaper and it would be quicker. Non of that happened.

The fuel mixture is what I am hoping but when some of you mentioned the timing belts might be off I got really scared! Could I trash my engine then.

I'm going to bed for tonight but will check later tomorrow.

What would the legal recourse be if I took it to Atlanta and had them look it over and fix it. I assume the dealer here will fight it unless I sue them for it. What are your thoughts?

I always hope the best in people and hope it's an honest mistake and that they will make it right. There has been enough odd stuff that I'm at least skeptical and keeping one hand close to hitting the red button. Thanks again guys, it is frustrating.

 

i'm sure you're right,
i guess my real recommendation is mostly for this poor fellow, to first take the car directly to a dealer or cert shop recommended in area
get a written independant inspection done of the work that was done
there must be someone here can recommend good one in scottsdale/pheonix area for him?
then make all the preparations needed for taking the first shop to claims, this is vital, rather then waiting or trusting that it will sort its self out...it doesn't make you the bad guy to get back what you deserve, being a proper running car and $$

 

We have to move on..........

Ferrari + Florida = Tim Stanford - - - kinda like, Ferrari + California = Eugenio's.

Check Tim out. From all that I've read and heard, he is more than up to the task, and extremely honorable.

Best & Happy New Year,

Hank

 

What was the original estimate?

I would take the car back and have them sort it out, but at the risk of them screwing it up further i would first get them to detail the procedures they plan on performing and have someone verify them

 

The car needs to go to someone who knows what they're doing.

Dyno tuning may be the way to go for a Subaru WRX with a reprogrammable ECU chip, however, dyno tuning is not the way to set the mixture on a 328. You use fuel pressure gauges, and a gas analyzer. Somebody who knows how to set the baseline mixture should do it and then watch the fuel pressure gauge as she runs up the rpm spectrum. There are specific pressure settings which should be seen. If those settings are off, don't bother picking up a screw driver, instead, have the warm up regulator (WUR) rebuilt or replaced. The WUR sets the fuel pressure based upon some limited data points, and it is the fuel pressure which controls the mixture on your 3.2.

Good luck!

 

They have done their best work. The dyno deal only happened because they could not get your car to run right and the dyno was the last chance at tuning it to where it was when they started. This would all be simple to fix at the right shop. Maybe it has a vaccume advance line disconnected, something simple. There must be a ferrari dealer in Florida. In the mean time, I would not drive it if it were mine.

 

Still, it could be worse.

This is what they did to mine when doing my first over-priced service.

AND they messed up my mixture to the point that the car was undrivable from the rich mixture...

Good luck with getting this sorted!!
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In most states at least, you would have to give them a chance to make things right before taking it elsewhere and trying to stick them with the bill. You would need to check FL consumer protection laws. This is an unfortunate situation for you and you will probably have to pay someone to fix the mess. I hope that at least some of the work done for the 9K will be OK so it won't be a complete loss.

Dave

 

$1500 to replace the radiator? Sounds kind of steep to me. I did mine last spring myself. It's about an hour's worth of work to pull it out and put it back in. Cost me a couple of hundred bucks to have it recored. What's their shop rate? $1K/hr.?

 

Don't know where you are in Florida but you might try Steve with Omega Motorsports in Jacksonville. He's always been honest with me.

 

The radiators for the 328 are dirt cheap, my brother found the manufacturers are from Spain. He changed it at home and everything was if my memory is right, $500. And thats taking into account that we live in Florida.

 

Lets be real here. US repair shops do not shop in Spain for new radiators.

There is plenty to be critical of here but that is just horse crap.

 

tell them the car is completely unacceptable,and please pick it up and make it right.. You probably should not have driven car for several weeks 300 miles.. It would have been better to not accept the car in the 1st place. As well they should not have given you the car in this poor state of tune.It sounds like you questioned the repair initially, as you asked to see the spark plugs??.If they have been given a chance to make it right and failed . Obviously you must take it elsewhere ..I have my own repair shop, as well as my own 328, The problems that you are having should be able to be sorted by any shop well versed in Bosch cis FI systems. I become uncomfortable when I hear of poor service mixed with overcharging. I dont understand how you got up to 9K? was this agreed upon? Why did you pay, accept the car if it was not serviced correctly?As they had the car for 7 weeks I understand your lack of confidence.. The whole thing is unfortunate ,but I dont think your engine is ruined and should be able to be brought back to its previous state.Good luck.Tepps

 

We order it from Spain. Another deal was the Testarossa ac compressor, dealer said over $2,000 for the part alone, I bought the unit locally from a supplier for $220 and found the part and took it to the dealer within an hour. Some folks pay whatever and others like to shop around.