Never hear airlines making gear ups... | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Never hear airlines making gear ups...

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by rob lay, Oct 11, 2009.

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  1. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
    Full Name:
    James K. Woods
    #26 James_Woods, Oct 23, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
    There is a saying that there are only 2 kinds of pilots: The ones that have done it, and the ones that are going to someday. Maybe I am almost in between.

    Back in the early 1970s I belonged to a "Beechcraft Club". This was a members-only flying club sponsored by the factory where you could rent Beech planes at a reduced rate all the way from the little trainer up to the Baron twins.

    My big goal was to qualify for the V-tail Bonanza. Part of the requirement was X number of hours in the Sierra - a sort of retractable gear trainer; it could hardly keep up with a Cessna 182 even with the gear up.

    Anyway, I took the Sierra for a business trip from Oklahoma City down to Lawton, Oklahoma. When I was coming back in the late afternoon, an Ice & Snow storm front had come through OKC. So, I am sitting there listening to the Wiley Post tower asking everybody what the braking effects were like, and each pilot got to adding to the drama by degree. I get there kind of nervous about making the landing. The local Aero Commander factory pilots were amoung the worst, reporting "negligable braking response" and other horrors...

    So, I ask for a flyover down the runway to see what it looked like - which they approved. So, I go flaps & gear, fly low down the runway to look it over (but not touching down), clean it up and go around the pattern. (the reader can probably now guess what Mr. Woods did NOT do before turning final on the real landing approach.

    So, I am still so freaked about the ice that I completely ignore the gear horn, start to flare, and notice that I am getting awfully low just as the tower screams out "GEAR GEAR GEAR".
    I do not know to this day how close the prop came to concrete, but it somehow picked itself up and made a go-around.

    After this, the actual landing was no big deal...the runway was long enough that this plane doesn't really need any braking if you touch down at a proper speed and reasonably close to the near end. I confessed to the club instructor (who was also my Private ticket instructor in C152s) and he sentenced me to a full 2 hours of dual ice landings the next day, including deliberately getting it into little skids and pulling it out with rudder and power.

    After this, he gave me my V35B Bonanza wings - still my favorite plane ever to fly except for aerobatics types.
     
  2. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 5, 2002
    23,988
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    If you really want to understand why airline pilots don't gear up, read this website:

    http://flightlevel390.blogspot.com/

    I think he's one of the best writers about flying the line since Gann.
     
  3. BeachBum

    BeachBum Formula 3

    On commercial aircraft you have multiple ways of lowering the gear. Triple redundent hydrolics. If you lose all hydrolics you can manually pump them down and if that fails you can do a gravity drop. Again, Ive been out of the business for years so im not up on the latest aircraft but thats the way Boeing did it a few years ago.
     
  4. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

    May 31, 2003
    11,479
    Lewisville, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Guess
  5. ND Flack

    ND Flack Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2007
    1,051
    DC
    Interesting stat from that story:

    "Landing gear problems or gear-up situations were involved in 15 per cent of airline hull-loss accidents last year, according to an analysis by the International Air Transport Association."
     
  6. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
    Full Name:
    James K. Woods
    But that is a mighty big "OR".
     
  7. saleenfan

    saleenfan Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    595
    No Where
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    I had a student forget once. Our policy is to put the gear in at midfield downwind and then continue the pattern, Well low and behold he had traffic to find so he forgot about the gear. Fast forward to final, the flaps get added the power is reduced and the horns going off and i can see on the students face that hes having a hard time concentrating with the horn going off but still no action being taken, He even does his final check of "gear down, flaps full, cleared to land". I let him go just a little bit further (down to about 150 ft agl) and then i ask him the textbook question "forgetting somthing?". He all of a sudden got the classic "o s^&t" look on his face and promptly went around, Im not going to lie it made me extremely nervous to think that he could have done that and would have landed gear up had I not been there. The biggest thing that pisses me off with students is when they simply do the lip service for call outs such as three green when only two of the lights are lit up yet so needless to say I had a talk with the student after that.
     
  8. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2004
    4,761
    France
    Full Name:
    Cyril TESTE
  9. dmaxx3500

    dmaxx3500 Formula 3

    Jul 19, 2008
    1,027
    and those guys are now sweeping floors at which mcdonalds?
     
  10. rcallahan

    rcallahan F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 15, 2002
    3,307
    Santa Barbara
    Full Name:
    Bob Callahan
    As a former commercial pilot (started my own biz after EAL went out) is is almost impossible to land "gear up". There are so many horns, computers yelling, and hopefully the co pilot screaming that you really have to be either drunk or the gear really will not come down to do this. :)
     
  11. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 12, 2005
    23,767
    Sin City
    Full Name:
    Deplorie McDeplorableface
    I have to think that having more than one person in the cockpit has to help with not forgetting to put the gear down. Also, if the gear warning horn is blaring, one of them is more likely to recognize what it is.


    Mark
     
  12. Island Time

    Island Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2004
    10,774
    E. TN
    Full Name:
    David
    Gear-ups on the line I've not seen. Leaving the cockpit with the engines still running on the last leg of a 4 day trip....that's a different story.

    One guy I know landed gear-up....twice. He figured flying wasn't his strong suit and quit flying after his second one.
     
  13. bbpathfinder

    bbpathfinder Karting

    Mar 29, 2011
    80
    Scottsdale AZ
    He may have been a great flyer, just a forgetful lander....
     
  14. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2003
    7,911
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    I have flown with many many pilots who had much more time than I and the one thing that I noticed is COCKPIT DISCIPLINE and CONSISTENCY . Religiously following a check list before take off and following the one for landing. Same procedure EVERY TIME no matter how many personal hours or time in type they performed the same process even though they had done it thousands of times before. AND there was NO TALKING IN THE COCKPIT while they were going through their check list unless it was asked for and pertained to the check list. I flew with Ernie Gann many times in his Cessna 310 and even with his umpteen thousands of hours he went through the check, touching every control or instrument that was on the list. My son follows the same process. ATTITUDE !!
     
  15. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 27, 2004
    15,924
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jim Pernikoff
    There were a couple of crashes back in the '80s where crews neglected to properly set slats and flaps for takeoff, and the aircraft crashed shortly after liftoff. (One, a Northwest MD-80 in Detroit, hit the very Avis car rental office that I had been in just a month earlier!)

    I think that airlines have been more careful since then in ensuring that crews do not miss anything on the checklists before takeoff. Even now, I get a bit nervous if the crew does not configure the wings before the plane leaves the ramp area.
     
  16. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2003
    7,911
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    I recall that particular crash of the MD-80 in Detroit. When I saw pictures of the wing wreckage with the lower surface exposed I figured what had happened because I could see that the flaps were still retracted. I commented to my wife that the flap hinge pivot fittings were still closed and after the examiners had finished, they concluded that that the co-pilot repeated check list procedures that he failed manually to perform and pre-take off flap deployment was one of them.
     
  17. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
    481
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Tim
    I remember when I was an apprentice around 15 years ago, we had a customer 737, Air Vanuatu I think. It did a MLG up landing, not the crew's or the planes fault though. A rather large Tongan man decided to stow away in the wheel well, he got frozen in there and jammed the gear from dropping down. The pilots did a good job landing on the NLG and one MLG. We had a fair bitof work on after to replace gears, leading edges, and an engine.
     
  18. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    And remove a Tongan...
     
  19. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
    481
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Tim
    hahaha, glad I didn't have to pick him out. I did hear he had a benie on to keep warm!
     

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