New 1981 400i owner with a problem.

nice!! another new owner, congrats!! you will find somebody soon to chime in, but first try and put what number car you have and you could also get some history on it!!

 

Congrats on the new purchase. I may be missing something, but why is it running hot?

 

First congrats on your purchase!
Does "not start" meant the electric starting motor fails to turn the engine or does it mean the engine fails to run when cranking hot?

 

Wil,

We are all waiting for a more detailed description of the problem. Tell us a story, give us sounds and smells,

Tony

 

I am a newer 400i owner. It seems to me as though the starters are a problem with these cars as I look through the service history of mine. At 20K miles it has been worked on 4 times. I just replaced mine with one of the british units you can find on ebay. I have concluded that with these cars seemingly proun to vapor lock problems (hot starting) folks tend to wear out the starter getting it going when hot. I know for me, I have to crank and crank and crank when hot. I am back in the shop again exploring this again to attempt to reasonable fix.

Tim

 

This is a common fault on tehse cars. Starter spinss when cold, just clicks when hot, OK again when cold. It is usually the starter solenoid. Only way to cure it is to fit a new solenoid. It is quite a job to get teh starter out, so I woudl have it rebiuilt whist it is out. Soemtime a second battery and a set of jump leads will jsut provide that extra little bit of voltage that is needed to get eth soelnoid to work, by teh way.

If you want a detailed description of how to do thi son a 400 carb tehn let me know, teh basics are teh same for a 400i. It involves remoeving the exhaust manifold in order to get teh starter out, which sound a lot more difficult than it really is.

Simon

 

I know someone will ask so here is teh procedure:

Removal was quite straight forward:
1) Remove battery for safety
2) Remove relevant air-filter
3) Remove exhaust manifolds from this side engine and from the rest of the exhaust on this side of the car
4) Undo wiring (three wires)
5) Undo easy to get at 19mm lower nut and washer
6) Undo slightly more difficult 17mm (yes 17mm) upper nut
7) Starter drops out underneath the car
The space around the upper nut is a bit tight and I had been warned I might need to make a special spanner but a standard spanner from a Mercedes tool kit fitted perfectly. This is a combination that is 19mm open ended at one end and a 17mm ring spanner at the other, and about 4 inches long.

 

Tim, if you have a series 1 relay board (and I think you do) its not vapor lock its the hotstart relay on your relay board. Its the one thats twice as tall as the others located on the far right side. If it isn't clicking when the car is hot she won't start. Trust me on this and go check it.

 

For your problem I would suggest swapping out the Dinoplex for an MSD unit. I used to have to spin mine over for considerable time before it would start. With the MSD uint it fires on the initial revolutions.

Al

 

Beautiful car! Looks to be in superb condition.

Aidan
PS Before Dave suggests this, try opening the vents on the dash - the A/C might work then. [Joke]

 

Hey guys, I'm no expert on this but, before you start having him changing ignition boxes (expensive), starter solenoids (pain in the butt) shouldn't we consider what is changing that causes the starter to engage after he pushes the car forward or backward after it fails to spin?

Seems to me that maybe the starter gear (aka bendix gear) is not engaging correctly or is maybe jamming the starter and the movement of the car in gear is freeing it up. Now the fix may be to rebuild or replace the starter, but what do you think?

BTW is it even possible to have vapor lock on a fuel injected car? The "vapor lock" condition occurs in carbureted cars only as far as I know.

I could be wrong on these points, so don't worry about hurting my feelings if I need to be educated!

Beautiful looking car, by the way! Really like that sunroof, a very rare item on these cars. Would it be possible to post a picture of the interior headlining of the car?

John

 

The problem wil is having I think is the starter solinoid and the only way to fix that is to remove the starter.
The hard starting while hot I had was the bleed off of the CIS fuel injection. Which was fixed by puting in new injection pumps which had new check valves. I also put in new style bronze body injecters which could have been a bleed off point but it really only made it run smoother.

 

Dave, right on once again. Glad to see you are feeling better !!

 

I confirm, Dave has given the right piece of advice. There is another post on it. Had the same problem on a 79', solved by now. The solution was to firmly switch this relay with a kind of belt so it won't unplug anymore. Olivier

 

Dave, (and others),

Thanks for the suggestion., My mechanic checked it and asked if I could find one so I assume it was bad. He said he checked Rutlands and his sources and cantt find it..

It is Ferrari part # 114291 or Bosch part # 0 332 322 003

Any ideas?

Tim

 

in the meantime, an old, poor boy work around: always park on enough of an incline that you can roll it in neutral, then put it into 1st or 2nd and kick start it...looks pretty 'upscale' doing this in a Ferrari, but it does work

 

McCann has it for $95

 

Oh, kind of like the time i had to ask an interested bystander to help me PUSH my car out of the way at a busy gas station because I couldn't get it restarted. I think it made his day (but not mine)!

Brennan

 

I had a similar experience on a very hot evening recently. I had been at an Italian restaurant with a friend from England (who loved 400s as a child), and when we came to leave, the I didn't catch it on the first turn of the key. Things got worse after that and I called the AAA for a flat bed. After 10 mins or so, I tried again and it fired up immediately! My car has the "high-torque British Starter" and it usually fires up instantly.

Aidan

 

Hey all, just an update, We replaced the hot start relay, that did not do the trick. We did a hot leak down test on both fuel sides. The systems hold no pressure when hot and are for sure causing a vapor lock situation in the injection systems. We are going to replace one of the fuel pumps hoping that it is a check valve in the pump.

Will let you know.

Tim