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Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Pat, Jan 4, 2004.
Sounds like the competition doesn't stand a chance.
These next few years should definitely be interesting.
Indeed. Ferrari's/ Luca's gameplan seems rather clear.
The 550/575, 456 and 355 were all "inherited" cars that still bore the mark and DNA of the previous, somewhat clouded leadership of the marque, or lack thereof.
With the 360, Luca and lead engineer Amedeo Felisa had there first totally blank slate. And behold the results. The 360 set the standard. It's taken the other makers almost five years to catch up and arguably surpass it (very arguably). With the 612, and especially with the Maranello replacement, the surpassing advantages of aluminum construction will allow them to at least equal Murci/GT2/SLR/Zonda peformance with F-car GT style, versatility and refinement, without the interior size constraints of steel and carbon fiber. And to add a spider to the top V-12 will all but obliterate Porsche's Carrera GT, especially with 600+ horses and aluminum spaceframe. (Although I still plan to own one. It's a magnificent piece of art). The 360 replacement will do more of the same in its class.
The Enzo set another standard and has provided a bridge between F1 and the normal production series cars, much more so than the F50 did. The engine is the most clear connection but I'm sure it's deeper.
And of course quality will improve because of the competition and Luca's determination to be the best in every area.
Aside from the 60's this is without question the best time to purchase sports and super cars. Everyone is making superb products.
Very glad to hear that Ferrari is finally responding to the challenge. And it is about time, too. Lambo, Porsche, Bentley, Aston Martin, etc. are all providing formidable competition with their new products.
I am keeping a close watch. If the "600+ bhp" estimate holds good, it is going to be either the new 620 or 575 for me.
just had news from my friend
well, the "restyling" 360 model was in Ferrari's plans some time ago; now, due to the actual 360's good sales and thanks to the new model (that will be ready earlier than previous plans) there won't be an "intermediate" 360.
We'll see the new "360" in late 2005 or early 2006 with a 470 bhp 4.0 V8, 500 hp on the CS.
Depending by the new model's sales, there could be a 360 CS Spyder.
Firstly, the 360 set the standard for five years? 996 turbo and mk1. GT3 came out the same year and are as fast if not faster round a track than the 360. The mk2 GT3 is faster round a track than a 360 CS, as we all know.
The CGT is as fast if not faster(again) round a track than the enzo, let alone a 612 spyder(which will be heavier and less rigid).
All IMHO, of course.
360 CS spyder...defeats the object
well, sorry but there's no match between a CGT and a 612 Spyder just because actually there's no 612 Spyder....so we can't say which one is faster.
Don't know how much a GT3 is faster than a CS, I can just say that Porsches (GT3 but explecially Turbo) lacks something in driving experience....don't know how to say it....I mean feelings.
Of course, the best part of a ferrari is the part you can't quantify- the noise, emotion etc. But those porsches are the best way to get round a track quickly.
I do not understand why you generally state that the 360 CS is slower around the track then the GT3? Car & Driver did one test on one track and it was less and 1/10th second slower. AutoCar did track testing in their Sept 23rd issues where they tested the Ferrari 360 CS, Porsche GT3, BMW CSL, Noble, Caterham, and others. In this test the Ferrari was 6/10ths of a second quicker around the track then the Porsche and the BMW was 5/10 ths quicker then the Ferrari.
"Accept the raw grip was the only thing that saw CSL best the Ferrari and you'll agree that the Ferrari's real target was to beat the Porsche. It did, but not quite in the way we would have hoped for or expected: it was much faster in the wet (2.1 sec) despite decidedly dry-track-oriented rubber, but could only beat the Porsche to the tune of 0.6sec in the dry. Yet the numbers don't tell you how deliciously adjustable it was in all conditions, how well it steered, stopped, or how badly it changed down into corners. Or how plain ridiculous the noise was!!"
Note: the that Caterham ($52,000 US) was the quickest car in the dry by 3.5 sec over the BMW, best braking and fastest car to 60 MPH (3.5sec) 100 MPH (7.3 sec).
Again, raw numbers are not the be-all-end-all and Ferrari was awarded the Performance Car of the Year by AutoCar! Porsche was 2nd, BMW 3rd, Noble 4th, and the Caterham 5th.
Ferrari also placed ahead of the GT3 in the Car & Driver comparison even though the Ferrari was more expensive and it was not faster then the GT3 on that day/ on that specific track.
Two cents worth.
I have a BMW M3 CSL, will have a 360 CS in 10 weeks time (drove one this past weekend), have recently sold a 360 Modena (manual gearbox) have owned 996 C2 and C4 and recently drove 2500 miles in France with two GT3's while I was in the 360 Modena.
The CSL has fantastic brakes and as I have the road racing Pilot Cup 19" tyres have found on the road will out corner all but the 360 CS. It is however very twitchy following every bump and line on the road. The same is true for the GT3. The CSL is far better than a 996 C2 or 996 C4 and probably the 360 Modena, but it is as quick as the 360.
On the road the 360 will keep up with a GT3, it's not easy but in the mid range the 360 is better. Both GT3 drivers compalined that the car is too hard on the suspension to live with - kidney pains after a full day driving.
The 360CS is very easy to drive and on the road is not as twitchy as either the BMW or the GT3 and will certainly beat both of these in accelaeration and braking although the CSL might out corner it on the CSL tyres - the PZero Corsa tyres are not as soft at the Pilot Cup and have deeper grooves etc.
For my money Autocar got it right 1st - 360CS, 3nd - GT3, 3rd CSL. I'd probably put the 360 Modena above the CSL and certainly the 996 below.
I'll add more if anybody wants.
are you sure? I think that depends by the track too.
sure, really interesting