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New battery choice

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by ferraridriver, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    I just replaced my Interstate MP-91 with an Interstate MT7 AGM-34R.

    The "R' means reversed terminals which is necessary for the 550 and I assume the 575 and 456. Suggested list price is $254.95 - 282.95 according to Interstate

    It's an AGM battery with 800 cold cranking amps and 48 month free replacement. Being an AGM battery means no venting battery acid fumes

    Dimensions are 10 13/16, X 6 3/4 X 7 3/4 so its about a half inch taller than the discontinued MPT-91 but I had no trouble fitting it including the stainless steel heat shield.
     
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  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Dave- According to the 575M WSM, the original battery in the 575M (and 360) was a FIAMM VR760, which is also an AGM battery, so should be good. As you probably discovered, the MTP-91 is NLA, although there is now an MTP-91/T6 with a 72 month warranty instead of the old truck battery's 85 month warranty.
     
  4. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 Veteran
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    #3 308 GTB, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 tazandjan, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Braille, Odyssey, and Interstate all have good AGM batteries as long as you get the correct one and not one of those dinky ones the V8 guys like to use. Then they wonder why their Ferrari is hard to start. Braille makes good lithium batteries, too, but they are very expensive. Note those are not the correct PN for their lithium batteries below any more, but appropriate sizes for a Maranello would be ~$1600-2600, but they only weigh 10-20 lbs.
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  6. 635CSI

    635CSI Formula 3
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    You guys get Bosch batteries over there ? Very well liked in Europe
     
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  8. Simon1965

    Simon1965 Karting

    Feb 8, 2011
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    but in that photo the +ve is on the wrong side for my RHD 550
     
  9. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 Veteran
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    Check with your local Braille distributor if they have a left side positive model.
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Barry- Or turn the battery around.
     
  11. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    Not possible on a 550 at least, no clearance for terminals.
     
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  13. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 Veteran
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    #10 308 GTB, Jun 2, 2016
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  14. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
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    Does anyone have any first hand experience with lithium batteries in a street car? I am considering replacing the AGM in my 360 with lithium, but I am concerned with running it in a car that wasn't designed for lithium.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Your 360 was designed for a 12 volt battery, regardless of type, so a lithium battery will work fine. They are just so expensive, I have not heard of any V12 owner ponying up for one yet. I know $1600 is a bit out of my price range for a battery. Prices are dropping, though, so maybe in the future.
     
  16. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
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    The problem is I am not convinced that's true. I know a bit about lithium from boating applications and lithium is rarely a straight drop-in for lead-acid without modifying the overall electrical system. That's why I am interested in hearing from people who have actually done lithium on these older street Ferraris.
     
  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes, but were those lithium batteries made for the application you tried, ie marine? The Braille batteries are made for automotive applications.
     
  18. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    We all have different weightings in any cost/benefit analysis, for me the lithium batteries come up short by a significant margin.
     
  19. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Dave- You and me both. Saving 20 lbs on a 3800 lb Ferrari for $1600 does not balance too well for me.
     
  20. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

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    That makes no difference whatsoever. There is no such thing as "marine lithium batteries". They may be marketed as such, but the underlying technology will be the same as lithium batteries intended for automotive applications.

    What does matter is the electrical system that is used to host these batteries. As I said before, in marine applications, existing electrical system frequently need to be modified significantly to enable the safe use of lithium. I am trying to find out which of these modifications may be needed in the Ferraris.

    If you believe you know the suitability of lithium for these cars, perhaps you can share what type of battery chemistry is used in automotive lithium batteries, what are the most appropriate charging regimes, what needs to be done to the existing regulators to ensure safe charging, what precautions/modifications need to be taken with respect to power cable, fuse, connector, switch and alternator sizing, what additional equipment needs to be added for monitoring lithium battery status, what are the insurance implications for using non-standard batteries, etc.

    Unless an electrical system is designed/modified with some of these criteria in mind, lithium technology can be a dangerous exercise.

    And it is not all about the cost of the batteries, it is the cost of the overall system modifications that might be needed. The type of an automotive battery that Braille sells for $1,600 can be readily put together for less than $400 worth of lithium cells. There is nothing magic about their batteries. Unless they provide you with $1,000 worth of liability insurance in case something goes wrong.
     
  21. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    Exactly! That's one of the more heavily weighted items to consider which would lead me to dismiss lithium batteries out of hand. I even had concerns about AGM batteries in that regard but I now believe my worries were unfounded.
     
  22. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Blah, blah, blah blah, blah.
     
  23. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

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    Having a challenging day?
     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Rugby- My degree is in chemistry, so we could probably go down that route, but I get the feeling it would be a waste of time. So, frankly, Scarlett...
     
  25. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 Veteran
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    Dave,

    The Braille batteries in my cars have been doing well for several years now. They way I figure it is if AGM batteries were good for the F-18s and HumVees used in Desert Storm then they're good enough for me. :)

    Barry
     
  26. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Barry- When Ferrari was having so much trouble with the Optima batteries that came on the V8s from the factory, they were retrofitting Brailles at the dealerships. That was why the sheet I posted above was given to Ferrari dealers.

    When Johnson Controls bought Optima, they moved production to Mexico and there were all kinds of quality control issues. Bad enough that I still would not personally recommend an Optima battery to anyone.
     
  27. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

    Sep 2, 2009
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    I just removed the battery tender from my car, it was showing green

    But when I got in and turned the key nothing ):

    So I check on Ferrari chat, and what do I find some of my favorite people on this form discussing Dave's new battery....

    I checked my invoice it was replaced December 2011 same one you had Dave MPT 91.

    My only problem is that I cannot put it in myself.. I know how sad that seems to most of you talented people.

    But technicians need to make a living :)

    Thank you everybody for your input !

    Cheers,

    Bill
     
  28. wbklink

    wbklink F1 Rookie

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    hahaha... For sure Terry !
     

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