New battery

Does the FF have only one battery?

 

Oddly, our FF was in last week to get the winter tires swapped and dealer tested the battery and found it lacking as well.

The car has been driven and is constantly on the tender, but we ended up with a new one anyway, under warranty. I am sort of believing the OEM batteries leave something to be desired....

 

They do. You should see which brand the OEM tender is. I think its CTek but I also think Ferrari supplies only the most basic CTek tender with the car.

 

The battery on my 458 lasted less than a year. There are many similar stories of early battery failure in Ferraris. Oddly enough the battery in my wife's '07 F430 was going strong for 7 years; I just replaced it figuring it was living on borrow time.

 

My '11 is on it's third battery.

 

when do you connect battery tender, if not using car, 3 days, 5 days, 1 week, more?
I ask because I use my car daily, but wanting to know if I take vacation etc

 

In my 2012 FF, the battery was considered toast (dealer said charge not holding as expected) a few months back and I paid for replacement at dealer (around $500 with labor). The loophole for Ferrari on battery warranty was I had driven less than 2500 miles per year (average around 2000/year using vehicle 5 days per week) so Ferrari wouldn't cover replacement under warranty. Their translation is low miles per year = infrequent use and lack of proper battery exercise. Dealer did give me new battery tender under warranty. Replacement battery was Interstate. My 2011 Maserati GTC and Ferrari FF have been only vehicles that I've owned with battery behavior issues. My Mercedes products easily start after sitting 30 days without special accommodation (battery tender).

Dave

 

Opinions will vary, but I favor a no-more-than-1-week rule. Certainly the car will still start if you go a few weeks, but the battery will be more deeply discharged. Lead-acid batteries do not like to be deep discharged, so keeping them near top charge will increase their life.

 

That's a LOL! I suppose there is a certain logic but ...
BTW Interstate is the standard replacement battery and is likely to do better than the OEM one.

 

Rick,thats good news...glad it working normal,regards

 

Now that is one helluva set of wiper blades. But one of them is huge.

 

Rick- At least with an AGM battery, you do not have to worry about acid spilling. It could have been mounted upside down. Did they give you the battery warranty with the new battery? Should be about 72 months.

You sure about that number on the Interstate battery? Could not find anything on those numbers, but Interstate's website is really useless.

 

Terry, I think Rick meant MT5-49/H8. I was recently speaking to the tech specialists at Interstate about suitable AGM batteries for current Ferrari models. The German-made MT5-49/H8 is the best match from Interstate. Interstate is owned by Johnson Controls (Dallas), which also owns VARTA (automotive batteries) in Germany.

According to a well-connected fellow FChat member, my HELE-equipped car uses the same FIAMM battery as the FF and the F12. Interstate batteries are commonly used as FNA replacements because the FIAMM batteries are not imported to NA. You can get the MT5-49/H8 for about $265 direct from Interstate.

 

Michael- Thanks for the info. Always trying to figure out the best battery available. That is a big humming battery, 64 lbs and way too big for my 575M. Not a volunteer to change one of those.

 

Terry, you're welcome. About your 575M, (according to FIAMM literature) it uses an L3 size (190mmH x 278mm W x 175mm D) battery, which I understand is equivalent to an H6 size. There are apparently different battery size naming conventions.

Bosch makes an automotive AGM battery in the H6 size called the S6585B. I've attached 2 PDFs. "2213441_BAT_TRDBRO_0114(edited).pdf" is an edited-down version of a Bosch channel catalog (I took out the lawn + garden + product display pages). It has a table showing the model number I quoted above. That's the model designation used in the US.

"Batteries_for_Start_Stop_Systems_en.pdf" has more technical information but does not use the battery model numbers referenced by the sales channels in the US.

AGM batteries tolerate deep-cycling much better than standard lead acid and EFB lead acid batteries. They last longer when challenged with repeated deep cycling (a regular lead acid battery would die in about 2 weeks in a HELE-operating car). AGM batteries can also recharge much faster depending on the charging system. Cars that experience constant heavy electrical draw (my HELE-California and perhaps the FF and F12) require AGM batteries because they can supply steady 12V voltage despite the repeated discharging. Otherwise, there would be no end of strange electrical faults and system error messages coming from sensors.

I believe the S6585B is available in the US. VARTA also markets an almost identical AGM battery in the US, unfortunately, only Mercedes carries those in Canada.
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It is a big battery, much bigger than the sports cars. It needs to run all of those gizmos that take power when the engine is not running: Open the hatch; tilt the seats forward... all of that takes power.

 

Michael- Affirmative, a document I made up a couple of years ago. Now out of date since several of the batteries have been updated. Price of lead has gone up since this was written.
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Thanks for the battery document Terry. The Braille batteries, especially the lithium ones, look interesting. My dealer provided me with an Odyssey PC1350 which looks decent. The H8/L5 sizing is also known as "BCI group 49". All these different battery size naming conventions may/may not be necessary but they are kind a crazy IMO.

The OEM FIAMM battery used in my car and the FF/F12 was probably the ecoFORCE AGM VR900 or a similar battery made for Ferrari. The original FIAMM battery in my car was likely defective. I am not sure what they do with the car batteries during the several weeks' journey from the factory but it would strike me as a distinct liability especially in a HELE car. I'm not surprised so many NA Fcar owners have problems with their FIAMM batteries as they all have to make that long trip here.
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Michael- I need to update a bunch of stuff. Ferrari has been using Braille, Interstate, and Odyssey batteries to replace the FIAMMs in the last couple of years.

I think all the down time, from when the cars are finished until they are delivered to the dealers, is killing the batteries here. Funny it does not seem to bother Mercedes. Porsche, and BMW, but they probably have a more efficient delivery system with less time sitting in the port waiting for a ship.

Mine still has an Interstate MTP-91 lead acid battery with a vent hose. They seem to last 6-8 years in a Maranello if used properly.

 

Yes, I know for a fact that Mercedes is actually a 'smalltime' VARTA battery 'dealer' in Canada.

They are happy to sell you one of their batteries if you know which one you want - just don't try ordering a bunch. I know because I and other non-Mercedes owners have already tested the 'channel'. BMW was less 'cooperative' but I believe they also import their own batteries - they make their X models in Spartanburg SC so why wouldn't they have a ready source for their OEM batteries. When I was driving BMWs I had no problems buying original batteries from local garages. Porsche is also not likely to suffer battery shortages as they are really part of VW, which has a huge presence in NA. I would not be surprised if they simply ship their car batteries separately from their cars and install them during the PDI. That's what I would do. Electrical problems cost a lot of money and goodwill to trouleshoot and fix. Replacing dead batteries with the odd Interstate, Braille or Odyssey is probably a pain for FNA.

Unfortunately, Ferrari has a tiny NA footprint by comparison to the likes of German carmakers and FIAT is arguably even smaller in NA so it's pretty obvious why Ferrari has battery problems in NA. I even spoke to a NA director for FIAMM who mentioned they would be quite willing to import FIAMM batteries if someone requested sufficient quantity. The issue here is 'sufficient quantity'. Johnson Controls plus Bosch dominate the market in NA so FIAMM has no business incentive to bring their automotive batteries into NA without a clear demand. FIAMM also probably has an exclusive supplier arrangement with Maranello so Ferrari cannot source Bosch or VARTA batteries for PDI in NA. Otherwise, FNA has to subsidize the process of shipping in and inventory small quantities of batteries separately from the shipping of their cars. It would create a challenge for FNA.

Yes, this reality probably explains why electrical problems and dead batteries bedevil new FCars. The correct size batteries from various makers will likely work except in situations where there may be special requirements like specific internal resistance requirements on the battery to meet charging performance specs. The main issue is that the replacement battery meets the factory specs, crucial if you want to protect your car's warranty. So it's advisable to get something your FCar dealer will warranty.

 

This is a very informative thread. I am learning quite a bit.

 

bumping the thread

Is the Interstate AGM battery still good for FF?

MT5-49/H8