New Dash Lights 365Gt4/2+2 LED's getting Cheaper

My dash lights were nonexistent at best. All connections good, voltage good. Bulbs functioned, but very dim. Like close all the doors in the shop, turn out all the lights. Wait for your eyes to adjust and you could see the faint dim glow. Not functional for night driving. Pulled the 4 cluster out of center. Wired direct to battery, same abysmal dimness. Got some LED's with twice the lumens of the stock bulbs. I did have to file the outside diameter of some of the bulbs to fit nothing too significant. Keeping with the hand fit characteristics of the car. Purchased from Super Bright LED's p/n BA9S-W4-90-12VAC 90 degree 12 volt. Cost $1.98 each (my car required 10) and this is what I got. BTW I have no affiliation with this vendor. Thought it would save someone my research time. I know there are a couple of threads out there, but a good alternative. Enjoy! Rick
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Good day Rick,

Thanks for the update!

I looked at the various threads, etc and in fact I ordered a number of LED auto bulbs to do some (electrical) evaluation/dissection of them. Although LED lights are great alternatives to other lighting technologies, they do have a few weak points that can reduce their lifetimes significantly as well as potentially damage the surrounding areas via heat (LEDs can emit a fair amount of localized heat). Thus, I wanted to thoroughly examine these LED lights to ensure that they designed appropriately... I say this, as I design and manufacture specialty Commercial LED fixtures and Controls and so I am curious to see what design trade-offs and/or limitations have been used in these products. I only received my LED bulbs last week and so it will be a few more weeks before my testing is complete. If anyone is interested I will report back with my findings.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Sam- I would be interested to hear your results. Thanks.

Rick- thanks for posting the info. I too would like to do a similar upgrade, but have been hesitant about modifying electrical components given how sensitive these cars are electrically.

 

Sam, I too look forward to your results. I chose 15 lumen bulbs as they were the lowest lumen available that were above originals. Original bulbs were 6 or 7 lumens and I could not see them. I was under the assumption that comparable lumen LED's pulled less power than the incandescents. Is this true? or does it vary by bulb design itself. Many of the options ranged from 30 to 90 lumens!

 

Can you dim the LEDs or are they either on or off?

 

Good day Jason and Rick,

Sounds good. I will post up what I find, etc.

Rick, with regards to your statement

In general this is correct... however... there can be exceptions to this based upon the LED light manufacturer, etc. For example, some LED Fixture/bulb manufacturers can use poor quality and/or low efficiency LEDs and so the overall fixture efficiency (light output versus input power) may not be better than non LED technologies. There was one Philips fixture I examined and it actually consumed 20% more power than the Fluorescent fixture it was to replace. For these small indicator lamps, I suspect that most if not all should consume less power. However, what I am concerned is about localized heat and what the lamp design does to dissipate this heat. LEDs are incredibly energy efficient, but are not 100% efficient and so they do generate heat. Overall not as much as other lighting technologies, but because LEDs tend to be smaller the heat per unit area (heat density) can be much higher and thus requires mechanical and thermal design elements to deal with this heat. If this localized heat is not properly dealt with the LED lifetime will be severely reduced and also the surrounding area may become heat damaged.

LED Lighting is an excellent technology, but sadly there are a number of LED manufacturers and fixture manufacturers that have poorly designed products and the result is significantly reduced lifetimes, quality issues, etc.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day Jim,

Typical incandescent dimming circuits (resistive dividers) will not effectively work with LEDs or in some cases not at all. You see Incandescent bulbs tend to be voltage controlled, whereas, LEDs are current controlled. Adding to the complexity LEDs require a minimum threshold (bias) voltage to even turn on.

To dim LEDs efficiently the dimming voltage is usually a series of voltage pulses where the pulse duration and frequency are varied (Pulse Width Modulation - PWM) in response to the desired LED brightness. For simple LEDs one could use non-PWM dimming, but the brightness linearity and overall efficiency tend to be affected.

If I can find some off the shelf LEDs that I think are suitable I will design a retro-fit PWM dimmer module that can be connected to the OEM adjusting knob to make the system work appropriately.

Cheers,

Sam

 

I installed LEDs (off the shelf at my local electronics store) in the 308 gauges, and the difference was night and day (PTP). The dimmer works for about the top third of its range, then the lights go out. I don't know about heat issues - nothing's burst into flames yet...

 

They claimed to be dimmable. They are on or off. The rheostadt moves full range and they do not dim until it is adjusted all the way down and they turn off. I don't know if they are too efficient or rheostadt doesn't have enough resolution or they just don't dim. They are at a pleasant level so no complaints.

 

Good day Patrick,

The dimmer function is what I expected. As I mentioned, LEDs require a minimum bias voltage just to turn on. Given the size of the lamps, etc it is highly unlikely that the manufacturer has embedded the best LED drive circuitry within the lamp. That is not to say this is highly problematic... but will reduce the LEDs lifetimes, efficiency, and susceptibility to voltage transients (e.g. nasty electrical disturbances on the power wires).

As for heat... it is highly unlikely they would burst into flames. A lot of manufacturers use a less light output rated LED and drive them much harder in order to get the appropriate light output. They do this to reduce cost... we are talking pennies or in some cases dimes... but that is how some companies roll. The result is that the LED's lifetime is significantly reduced and the possibility of heat damage to the surrounding area (perhaps discoloring, deformity, etc). As an example I bought some LED lamps for my X5's angel lights and the longest they have lasted (tried 3 sets already) is about 4 months. Looking at the LEDs, I can see that they used a smaller light output version... and thus the reason for the failure.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day Rick,

As mentioned in my previous posts, LEDs have a minimum voltage to turn on... which explains your dimming results.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Thanks Sam
Well, if you find the ones you like, let me know. Or better still, package up a whole set of them in the appropriate sizes and mail them to me - there's a carton of Moosehead in it for you

 

On several occasions on FCA events people have told me that my brake / rear and or blinkers are dim. First time I checked one of the two were out but two bulbs were only marginally better than one. On a recent long trip a truck driver told me the same at a rest stop.

So it was time for action. I found SuperBrightLEDs.com and ordered up LEDs for all of the tail lights, including the reverse lights. Interesting on their web site they show how bulb color (yellow/red) should match the lens color or much of the white light is not transmitted. They have two shades of white, red and yellow bulbs and they have two "filament" and singles also. I replaced them all and what a difference! Hazards are linking correctly but turn signals are a bit fast. My flasher was already electronic but not an LED flasher. I tired an LED flasher and lights did not work at all; I think it was a bad item. I just ordered an adjustable LED flasher but it has not arrive. 3-prong LED flashers are part #CF13JL-02. I'll report back on results.
Ken

 

Ditto!

 

G'day Sam, did you ever get around to testing out all those led globes you mentioned earlier in this thread? If so what were the results?

I noted your information on dimming led's, and associated challenges in another thread recently, and was also interested if, in your opinion, this unit would work to dim led dash lights on our cars, if it was wired into the rheostat and hidden away? Kind of set and forget if you will. Thanks for your thoughts. https://www.autometer.com/led-lighting-dimmer.html

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It took me three attempts to implement a proper LED setup. I actually had to make my own bulbs...




The whole idea is to use some G4 bulb and solder them to a BA9s socket. If you can make it do with a slightly less compact solution you can use G4 to BA9s converters (no soldering required. Bulbs made in China, but the I ended up paying for a good dimmer made in the UK.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/dash-lights-lets-give-it-another-try.599042/#post-146588254

 

I found these LED BA9S bulbs to be a great solution for dash lights

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32879133118.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.35894c4dCm4c11

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They are quite bright - much brighter than the original, fit in the standard holder and pass through the standard hole in the back of the instruments.

They are dimmable and work with the standard rheostat dimmer. The glass is a yellow colour, but they illuminate with a clean white light.

The current price is less than 40 cents (U.S.) each plus USD5 postage per order. I have bought 130 units over couple of years and have had zero failures.

(So cheap that I give them away as trinkets to local Ferrari and Lambo owners who are down on their luck. They are so grateful that they strew fresh rose petals in my path as I walk )

Regards

WM

 

FFS Bill have you sucked on the Blarney Stone recently??

 

Excellent! Thank you! How many of these do you need to relamp the entire dash of a series II 400i? I just ordered 20, which i'm guessing is more then enough...

 

Good day Tim,

Sadly, I have not... at least regarding LED lights for autos that is. As the old saying goes... a mechanic's car is the last to be serviced I say this, as I design all sorts of LED lights and fixtures used in larger-ish commercial buildings... and... I have over 30000 LED components sitting on my shelves so there is certainly no shortage of parts that I could use. If you need a light fixture as bright as the Sun or one with some funky architectural features/controls give me a call With regards to my car's lights...the issue for me is spare time, which sadly, I have not had a lot of.

The autometer device you mentioned "may" work, but the way it is described it sounds like it is designed to support Autometer's LED lights which may or may not have the same electrical setup as used in our cars.

With that said, some of the Asian designed LED replacements may be a lot better now because of continued improvements in the LED components. For example some of the high brightness LED parts I am using (5000 lumens and up) have seen a 40% reduction in power consumption just in the last 18 months. In fact I have one design that uses some very efficient COB LEDs that consumes only 19W compared to the original 450W Halide lighting assembly... and with more features, controls, and a lot less heat. Attached is a few pics of this unit... The unit can generate 20000 lumens (primary lighting) with 4 separate high brightness RGBW architectural LEDs with full controls (dimming, sequencing, etc) and multiple redundancies (8 separate drive circuits).

Anyway... I am hoping to have some time to work on my cars in about 6-8 weeks and if so then I will revisit these LED lights. Also, depending upon when you need your dimmer I may be able to assist. I will be designing and building a few control circuits like these (Dimmers, Fan motor controller, etc) later this year (perhaps June/July) and so if you have not found anything by that time I can send you one of my dimmer controllers... which will work with the OEM dimmer knob/pot and wiring.

Cheers,

Sam

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You can use LED's for all of the dashlights except the alternator light.
From memory, I think there are 11 (plus alternator).
Regards
WM

 

Plus the 2 cigarette lighters and the automatic shift lever (if you have one). It is a good practice to add a resistor in parallel to the alternator light: if the bulb fails at least the alternator keeps working.

 

That's pretty cool stuff there Sam! I doubt I'll be fitting my instruments by June/July as much as I'd love to be, so if you do have a dimmer switch that works with our cars I reckon I'll be very interested!

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I am also interested in the outcome on the dash lights. What color rendition are these LED's On my 328 there is a colored lens in front of the bulbs and depending on which brightness used, the results vary from blue to green or an almost yellow. So it was important to get the right color rendition. Is this also the case on the 400 as I have not tackled to dash lights yet to see.

 

Just have a look at the video I posted. I presume that @Bill26 suggested bulbs will deliver a similar colour to the bulbs I've used, as both bulbs types are COB, without any filter (except from the COB coating obviously).

If you look at my previously mentioned post you may notice that I've made a few attempts, and the regular (non COB) LEDs I originally used had a blue cast that I did not like. The COB bulbs are much more appropriate.

Apart from colour, the other element to be taken into account is "Brightness" linearity, as these LEDs have to be properly dimmed. Theses LEDs do have so much output that at full power they make some unwanted reflects and glare on every single defects of the gauges lenses. My first Chinese dimmers could not deliver a proper low output: it was more like Off - Too bright - Way too bright!