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New Dino Impact on 360s/430s

Discussion in '360/430' started by DJ4200GT, Aug 20, 2005.

  1. DJ4200GT

    DJ4200GT Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2004
    352
    With all this talk of declining 430 values lately I got to thinking...we all would agree that a lot of what fuels the values of these cars sky-high is the fact that there is a lot of hype which leads to lots of people with lots of money wanting to have one. We would also agree that not necessarily all these people are die-hard fans of the marque like all of us but perhaps rather the type of person that wants the lastest and the greatest just to show off to his similar type friends. Therefore that type of person simply wants entry into the Ferrari brand, prior to the Dino the "cheapest" way in was through one of the V8 cars the 360 and now the 430. With the Dino they will be able to get in for 150k or so. My point to all of this is when the Dino comes to pass with that large population of "poseurs" flocking to get "the next (and cheapest)best thing" there is going to be a mass exodus of buyers from the 430/360 market...than will the new 430s end up like their bigger 575/612/600 Imola brothers with less of a following and consequently much much less of a resale value...I have a strong feeling they might. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts...
     
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  3. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    You well may be right. But, the glorious tributes paid to the 430 by 360 and CS owners indicates the technology of the 430 will ensure it's value for a long time. Especially if the F1 clutch ends up lasting 20,000 miles.

    The question, to my mind is; will Ferrari compete with their own 430 by making the entry level car (1) as sexy, and (2) with as much Formula One technology. If so, there will be a long waiting list and could soften "market value" of the 430.

    All this is IMHO, since I do not own a Ferrari (but would like to own a 430 someday).
     
  4. mlabiche

    mlabiche Rookie

    Jan 9, 2004
    20
    Aroud Geneva Lake - AKA : Heaven
    Full Name:
    Marin Labiche
    My Reply : Let's first the "new" Dino to arrive..... If only it arrives and what it worth in the flesh even for "poseurs"
    Since then discussing about its effects on the futur price of 360/430.. whatever else is just like forecast for the next decade weather...

    ... BTW "in the long range, we are all dead....", so enjoy right now your car and stop thinking of tomorrow if you don't mind

    My 0.2 $

    Cheers
     
  5. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,814
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    DJS
    In my circle of friends, I have not met any Ferrari or Lamborghini owners who are not die hard sports car fans. They all know their cars, like to talk cars and drive their cars.
     
  6. DJ4200GT

    DJ4200GT Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2004
    352
    You obviously have never lived in Miami!!
     
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  8. 911Fan

    911Fan Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2004
    1,291
    Southern California
    Good one!
     
  9. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,458
    potomac
    common on dave, everyone knows that people with red sports cars are posseurs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. SELLER

    SELLER Karting

    Jul 18, 2005
    149
    Chicago
    I dont agree, for a few reasons.

    1, Ferrari would have NO PROBLEM selling a Mid-Engine V12 ($275-300k, regular volume, which would compete with the Murcielago).

    2, A HUGE reason why the 360 fueled the decline of the traditional V12 cars is because the 360 was Mid-Engine. People LOVE mid-engine Exotics, its the ultimate form of a Sports/Race car. Obviously Ferrari has been building mid-engine vehicles for a while, but the 360 was their first 'True Hit' with a Modern Mid-Engine.

    The 'Mid-Engine' of the 360/430 has always 'done it' for me. A front engine Ferrari just doesnt appeal to me, even if it was only ~$130,000.. I'll always rather have the 'Mid-Engine'.
     
  11. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,814
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    DJS
    This is a true statement. I have visited ti several times though.
     
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  13. kozmo

    kozmo Karting

    Sep 7, 2004
    97
    Fresno, CA
    Full Name:
    Mike T.
    They aren't even expecting a concept design of this vehicle to be shown until 2007, which means if the car is well liked and Ferrari believes it may be successful, this car won't even be on the market until 2008-2009 at the earliest.

    I seriously doubt this car, if it even ever comes out, would have any impact on 430's, at least not for the next 4+ years. The only thing holding back 430's right now is a 3-5 year wait list for a model near or at MSRP for those who don't want to buy a "flipped" car, or whether or not you have the $100k over sticker to drop on this car.

    if you have the money, you can drive home a 430 today, no waiting involved, Silicon Valley Auto Group had 3 for sale yesterday at the Concorso and sold a blue Spider right there on the spot, and I've seen at least a half-a-dozen others for sale elsewhere. I don't know about you but I haven't really seen prices drop, I have seen some that are slightly cheaper than others, but they aren't falling very fast. The Coupe Silicon Valley Auto Group had was $255,000 and I asked him how they determine the price and pretty much word for word he said "We buy the car with a 100 miles or so on it, and then we take it and clean it up and sell it for whatever the market will bare". Dealers know just as well as any of us do that they can make big money on a hot car.
     
  14. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,711
    Gladwyne PA
    Full Name:
    Morrie
    All this talk, the only talk I have heard (and by the way I have been following the market for years) is coming from you. I think that since you do not own a Ferrari, you probably never should. After all it will be worthless soon after you by it. Go away, you are really getting to be a bore




    QUOTE=DJ4200GT]With all this talk of declining 430 values lately I got to thinking...we all would agree that a lot of what fuels the values of these cars sky-high is the fact that there is a lot of hype which leads to lots of people with lots of money wanting to have one. We would also agree that not necessarily all these people are die-hard fans of the marque like all of us but perhaps rather the type of person that wants the lastest and the greatest just to show off to his similar type friends. Therefore that type of person simply wants entry into the Ferrari brand, prior to the Dino the "cheapest" way in was through one of the V8 cars the 360 and now the 430. With the Dino they will be able to get in for 150k or so. My point to all of this is when the Dino comes to pass with that large population of "poseurs" flocking to get "the next (and cheapest)best thing" there is going to be a mass exodus of buyers from the 430/360 market...than will the new 430s end up like their bigger 575/612/600 Imola brothers with less of a following and consequently much much less of a resale value...I have a strong feeling they might. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts...[/QUOTE]
     
  15. DJ4200GT

    DJ4200GT Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2004
    352
     
  16. Trevor L

    Trevor L Formula Junior

    Jul 21, 2004
    315
    OKC, USA
    Whats the point of a Dino if its not $80-$100K? Anything more than that is
    poaching from the 430.
     
  17. SELLER

    SELLER Karting

    Jul 18, 2005
    149
    Chicago

    The REAL QUESTION.. is in 3-4 years.. whos going to buy a new 'Dino' when you can buy a brand new Acura V10 NSX for ~$120k.

    I'll absolutely buy the next NSX, and the news of it possibly utilizing SH-AWD (Honda's AWD system) that makes it sound even HOTTER on paper.
     
  18. djantlive

    djantlive Formula 3

    Jun 30, 2005
    1,008
    I've heard about Toyota/Lexus concept but the NSX is pretty much not going to get a redesign.
     
  19. DJ4200GT

    DJ4200GT Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2004
    352
    Yes thats my point from what I have read its going to be in the range of 150k which is going to take away many buyers from the 430...
     
  20. goober

    goober F1 World Champ

    Nov 15, 2004
    15,478
    Adelaide & Thredbo
    Full Name:
    Buddy Miles
    i have put an order in for the new dino, not based on its look (there r no pics) not based on anything other than it will compete with the GT3 porker and the 911 always looks basically the same - the dino will look different and be different to the porker..
     
  21. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,371
    if they make a dino at $150K then it is going to perform as a $150K car and will never be a 430 or a super america. I did not see the enzo market collapsing when the 430 came out. just because ferrari might make a cheaper car does not mean that it will destroy everything else they have made.
     
  22. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,814
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    DJS
    If the Dino happens at 150k or lower, it will have to have less technology and cost less that the 430.
    Maybe Ferrari is goint to use the Dino as a "loss leader" to prop up sales of their other cars.
     
  23. DJ4200GT

    DJ4200GT Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2004
    352
    Oh boy...alright the Enzo is currently trading around a million give or take a hundred thousand and it is made in limited numbers (400). The 430 is a car which is going to be produced in the thousands...that comparisson you made is worse than apples and oranges..The Dino is going to be around 150k (from what the press has speculated) the difference in price is in the thousands not hundreds of thousands...there is no question some buyers espically those that just want the cheapest entry into a new Ferrari will opt for the Dino which will bring the demand down considerably from the 430/360 since it will no longer be the cheapest way into a Ferrari...
     
  24. Dan Ciezniewzky

    Dan Ciezniewzky Formula 3
    BANNED

    Sep 6, 2004
    1,334
    Indianapolis
    No, the real question is who's gonna buy ANY new Ferrari when the V10 NSX comes out, let alone a 430 or its successor. Remember 1990??? Honda and Toyota don't pi$$ around and turn out BS sadly like Ferrari does...see 430 thread about problems ALREADY!!! oh, and I'm already 1st on the list to be on the offical list when the cars offically announcent, so I'm happy :)

    But more on target, I do think it'll deminish Ferrari a little because of all the posers who just what to own the name, like vettes. However, the true car lovers will still buy/not buy Ferraris based on the car itself, not what their friends or onlookers will think :)
     
  25. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,737
    Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, Anglesey, Wales
    Full Name:
    Angus Podgorney
    DJ, you are FOS.
    My old 360 Spider just resold for more than I paid new in 01. 7k miles now.
    You say you have a Ferrari, dealer friends, insight, looking for CS. Fill out your profile, come clean, you'll be OK. Stop posting BS you make up/heard/read about.
    We didn't get our cars by being gullible. We didn't get our businesses that way either. Your name implies you like Masers, yet you diss them in that forum.
    Inconsistency implies a poor liar, stupidity, or both. You have been asked more than a few times, I offered a lead on a CS, you never replied.
    Stop starting inane threads. If you had a car, you'd know. If you don't, learn from those who do.
    Many of us can buy whatever we wish. We choose Ferrari. Maybe not always, but we do. I like many makes, have owned many.
    It is pointless to compare NSX, Ferrari, whatever. NSX was colossal sales flop. Honda lost money on every one. They nearly killed it, but prestige requires they persist.
    Honda wouldn't put a V8 in a TRUCK, or their RL. They would sell far more of both if they did. THAT is where the money is.
    Ferrari knows the business and their customers. If you are not a current customer, you are rated below current customers. The Dino is an attempt to expand the customer base. I have doubts, but I prefer it to a sport-ute or sedan.
    The 430 is holding value, the Maser is adequately reliable, probably moreso than recent BMW's (6 friends have them as daily drivers, 3 coupes, 3 spyders)
    Prove what you say with facts, profile info. You look like an idiot, and the more you type, the faster you prove it. Prove us all wrong.
     
  26. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    368
    LALA LAND
    My hope is that they make the Dino a light weight track car along the lines of the Lotus Exige. In which case I think it would be great. Think about it no leather, no traction control, etc. just the soul of a F car, but w/out the lux of a 430, that woud be interesting to me.
     
  27. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,179
    "the real question is who's gonna buy ANY new Ferrari when the V10 NSX comes out"

    Oh, come on. Not to take anything away from the current NSX or its successor - the old one was great IMO and I'm sure the new one will impress, you're lucky to be at the head of the line - I don't think they're going to put a dent in Ferrari 8cyl sales. In any event, by the time the new NSX is sold, F will have something new and exciting.


    "see 430 thread about problems ALREADY!!!"

    I have a 430, no problems. I have a CS, no problems. If all you had to go on was posts here, you'd never buy a modern Ferrari, an awful lot of whining about Ferrari and the dealers and the cars, prices are dropping, etc etc.
     
  28. DJ4200GT

    DJ4200GT Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2004
    352
    I dont need to prove anything to you, if you dont like what I post than dont read it, I feel what I have to say is intelligent and worthwhile, and what I have posted has spawned thoughtful insite from other members. It doesn't matter if I have a Maserati, or a Ferrari, or Fiat...the point is I share the same adoration for the cars that I would hope you do. Get off this profile nonsense please all you do is make yourself look more immature than you already do. You have the right to say rude things to a person who provokes you but I have not done that and I have been nothing but respectful, so grow up or shut up. Also FYI I didnt post anything about NSX or Hondas perhaps in your ignorance you forgot to read the screename of the person who did ;)
     

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