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New Fuel Pump Setup

Discussion in '206/246' started by alhbln, Jun 22, 2012.

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  1. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Adrian
    #1 alhbln, Jun 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    A quick report about my fuel pump replacement. When we got our early S series Dino, the original BCD pump was still in place. Back then i replaced it against a Facet Red Top as a precaution, as the BCD was probably likely to fail anytime after 30-40 years of use. With the Facet i had unfortunately quite some problems with vapor lock on a hot summer two years ago while driving back home from a tour, as had another Dino which had the original BCD pump.

    The third Dino in our group had no problems at all and the owner still had the original setup with two Bendix pumps installed in his M series Dino, so last year i decided to try that type of setup. For the new installation i bought two 7.21440.53.0 Pierburg pumps, as they seem to be very reliable, and added a 7.20234.52 non-return valve after each pump.

    Works nicely so far and had no vapor lock issues yet. I am not sure if the Facet pump added to the problem due to the design or just due to the wear after all the years.
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  2. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    #2 swift53, Jun 22, 2012
    Cool setup Adrian! For the L I have the original Facet and new replacements, but the E, did not have a fuel pump at all. This one was an honest sale, so only very few things were missing. I found BCD Corona pumps in Italy, but so old that really fail to see the point of buying a used pump. Besides that, they are never on eBay.
    Who else used the BCD?
    I think you have added reliability, and as I hate getting stranded by old parts (just did because of a faulty starter motor...) and I like that.
    My Alfa Romeo race car ran like a clock
    with two Facet pumps, and the clicking is a nice feature. Do Pierburg pumps click? They appear to be sealed, so zero maintenance...
    They fit the Audi 80. The only issue, is where to find the non-return valves.
    Thank you for the pix.

    Regards, Alberto
     
  3. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    #3 TonyL, Jun 23, 2012
    Interesting work Adrain, question.

    Looked at the fuel pressure of these and they operate static 0.44 - 0.57 bar (6.38 - 8.27 psi). Are these OK considering the original bendix pumps were self regulating and operated at around 4psi?

    How do these work? in tandem or one as a standby? If tandem then you are doubling the fuel flow rate to 200l/hr.( Not good) at 2.2psi (way to low). If much higher than 4 psi then you will get idle problems.

    Did the original dino set up have a regulator fitted.

    Do you think the inlet fuel line will cause a airlock? These are PD pumps and require full inlet flooding, it may be difficult to vent the high point.

    I think some of the vapour lock issues are due to the float bowl on carb 1 being directly below the thermostat housing, i had similar problems and fitted a heat shield, seemed to work too, but alas it always raining here so never had a chance to test the theory!!

    As for the Facet pump (i have one fitted) i dont like them, high pressure and low volume, its given me cause for concern for some time but haven't had the time to sort it out!! IMO the red top is no good for the dino but could be wrong

    Tony
     
  4. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #4 alhbln, Jun 23, 2012
    In the Pierburg data sheets i have the pumps are listed with 0,15 bar/2.2 psi, e.g. 0,3 bar/4.4 psi in tandem, which is 10% above the 4 psi recommended for the carbs. The Red Top which was previously installed had 6 psi and 150 l/hour so am assuming i would be good with the 4.4 psi setup.
    The pumps work in tandem. If one fails the non return valve ensures that the other still can deliver enough fuel to get home or to the next workshop.
     
  5. racerboy9

    racerboy9 F1 Rookie
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    #5 racerboy9, Jun 23, 2012
    I've never had problems with the BCD pumps. Still around now and then. Bought a new one off Ebay for $39 which was a steal. Midwest Bayless has one for big bucks. They have the lower kit for less but still big bucks.
     
  6. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #6 alhbln, Jun 23, 2012
    We had another Dino fail with a broken pump on Matthias tour, luckily i had a spare pump with me. The AEG motor in the BCD pump seems to be sturdy enough but the pump mechanism and seals apparently tend to break and i am not sure you can repair them without any spare parts.
    BCD Corona nowadays seem to resell Pierburg pumps via the BCD brand, at least the pumps look quite similar to Pierburg.
     
  7. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    #7 TonyL, Jun 23, 2012
    Hi Adrian

    Are you OK with that, i am not sure why you want to run dual pumps continously, why not have one as a standby if you are concerned about pump failure. I like the idea of a backup.

    The original pumps worked on 0.25 - 0.30 kg/cm2 (3.55 - 4.26 psi) and anything above this can cause really bad idle problems. The facet pump over delivers fuel and unecessarily circulates high volumes of fuel around the fuel lines, this however does help to prevent vapour locking IMO

    Are you sure about this, Positive displacement pumps produce constant volume at given pressure, bolting two together, in parallel will not double the pressure, but it will increase the volume significantly.

    Tony
     
  8. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

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    #8 bill365, Jun 23, 2012
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  9. racerboy9

    racerboy9 F1 Rookie
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    #9 racerboy9, Jun 23, 2012
    The Stratos road car came with two BCD electric fuel pumps and a switch located between the seats to go from one to the other. This may have been the idea for the rally version and they decided to use it on the road car as well.
     
  10. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #10 alhbln, Jun 24, 2012
    The idea was to copy the dual pump layout of the M series setup to get rid of the vapor lock issues with the single Facet Red Top, the redundancy is rather a nice feature on top for me.

    Thanks, good info, i was not aware of this. So this would mean i only have the fuel pressure of a single Pierburg? I'll get hold of a fuel pressure meter to get a closer look what's happening, at least i didn't notice any fuel starvation even at higher load/RPMs.

    Thanks,
    Adrian
     
  11. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    #11 TonyL, Jun 25, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
    Thats the best way, check what you have as pressure will be dependant on the resistance in the fuel line circuit, to increase pressure you need to add a restriction, [fuel regulator].

    You shouldnt get starvation problems as you are delivering more than enough fuel.

    Dont confuse VOLUME with PRESSURE. Simpllistic calculation 140mph / say 13mpg = 10.76galls x 4.54 = 48.89 litres / hr Add 25% safety = 61 litres / hr fuel MAX volume required per hour at constant 140mph.

    PD pumps have a near vertical pump curve so would assume your pump may deliver a bit more than the 2.2psi quoted as this is at a delivery of 100l/hr. At no flow they develop 6psi so you could be OK at a lower delivery rate.

    Best

    Tony
     

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