New GT3 only with flappy paddles...porsche losing the plot?

This was to be expected.

As the world morphs into the "automated" version that the public has asked for - things like this are bound to happen. I am old enough to recall the first automated doors at the grocery store. Even then as a child I saw automation heading our way at full speed as I watched those doors open & shut as a kid.

Then TV remotes, power windows became prevalent, garage door openers, voice recognition, PDK. I do not have a problem with any of it really.

But I see my Son's playing with all of their automation that is in their lives and I think "These kids don't know what its like to make something work. They are just on cruise control."

But that is what the buying public that is being focused on (younger than me) wants I guess. I personally don't want a PDK GT3 but I want everyone else to have one. And I hope they all have superior ABS, traction control & stability management as well, cause I want everyone to have that too. Everyone but me. As I will just keep my mans version for myself.

 

now days the standard models and "GT" models are really completely different cars, so it might not be that easy, at least after the fact.

 

RIP Porsche.

To me, Porsche was the *ONLY* manufacturer that in my opinion HAD to offer a traditional 6-speed manual. The thought of an automatic/tiptronic/DSG/whatever transmission made and continues to make me cringe.

Losing the plot? Absolutely.

 

Completely agree. Is nothing sacred anymore? I was worried something ominous was waiting for us when the following (very cool) RSR video appeared on Fchat - flappy paddles connected to the manual shifter.

http://www.apexrally.com/2010/01/inside-porsche-rsr.html

IMO, the most sporting variant of a transmission would be an everyday usable sequential no-lift upshift, heel-toe downshift. Drop the GT3RS motor in a Cayman & mate it to that gearbox and you've got yourself one helluva Porsche.

Long live the air-cooled Porsche!

 

I wouldn't lump those all together.

I had a Tiptronic Porsche 993 at one point, and it was dog slow -- basically an automatic/torque converter setup that discouraged any kind of driver input and sapped performance.

I had a DSG box in my Audi TT, and it really is a manual apart from the absence of a clutch pedal. Ferrari ultimately ditched their rubbish F1 gearbox (355, 360, etc.) and went with something similar. PDK seems to be an improvement on that dual-clutch concept.

The new GT3 RS is probably the most desirable sports car on the market right now, and I wouldn't pass it up due to a lack of a clutch pedal, carbs, choke, etc.

 

I only have interest in a manual transmission.

If I purchased a Cadillac luxury boat, I might make an exception.

 

I have one or two simple questions - how many people actually run their GT3-RS to redline and speed shift it on each gearchange? (I mean on the public road, not the track) - and, note that in this car you cannot do this more than twice without being well over the legal limit.

Is gaining maybe a tenth to a quarter of a second on one gearchange really that important?

I submit that it is not - and that most of these paddle shift cars end up being driven as full automatics.

I prefer traditional driving pleasure with a traditional gearshift over meaningless magazine statistical bragging rights.

 

Well said. All of the current technology & double-clutch gearboxes are fantastic on race cars in that they're made for the singular purpose of clicking off fast laps. A retail sportscar should be made with the singular purpose of making the most involving, driver oriented product. IMO, F1 gearboxes snuff the life out of the experience.

 

This is sad. I don't care if the paddles are faster, I want to have the feel of a three pedal car.

My interest in vintage sports cars is increasing exponentially by the day.

 

I would. In all seriousness, I'd take my Boxster Spyder over a flappy paddle GT3. As James Woods said, ultimately the F1 gearboxes transform impressive sportscars into automatics.

I learned my lesson with my ex-430 F1 & I'll never buy another new flappy paddle sportscar. Like you suggested in an earlier post, I'll have to keep classics in the garage.

 

You and I and others are of the same mind. Fortunately, I bought my 430 with a stick. But we are in a small and shrinking minority.

IMO, paddles are popular for two reasons:
1. A lot of people don't really know how to operate a manual. Yeah, they can get by, but rev matching etc. is voodoo. Most people don't enjoy it. Demand for Ferraris went through the roof right when they started offering paddles. Coincidence?

2. Many people want to "be like Mike". They'll tell you how much faster it is, how much more race car like, etc. Truth is, paddles only help on upshifts and perhaps a 10th (at most) per shift. A 10th is a lot in an f1 race, but you'll never know by the seat of the pants you gained a 10th or 2 per lap. I track my cars quite a bit. At road America, I caught paddle equipped 430s with my dinosaur stick. Furthermore, in all the track days I have attended, I've never seen an F1 scout.

Let's face it though, the future for 3 pedal cars is very bleak.

Dave

 

It seems like the manufacturers are the ones pushing the paddle shifting so that those wanting manual shifters quietly fade away because it's becoming not available. I think this collectively is their M.O.

 

I was po'd when they stopped making drum brakes. Rolls Eyes

Although I'm a vintage stick shift kind of guy, they are old news.

I'm not interested in 1/100 of a second here or there but the handling characteristics of a proper dual clutch gear box is a thing of beauty. I get tired of everyone thinking it's just a quick way to shift gears when the big advantage in my mind is the ability to smoothly shift gears very fast, keeping the car balanced and not shifting torque where it shouldn't go.

 

Fair enough. However, you inadvertently stated the case of us pro-manual guys. "The ability to smoothly shift gears very fast, keeping the car balanced and not shifting torque where it shouldn't go" is precisely what makes driving a high performance manual sportscar involving.

What's more fun - getting your braking right, matching revs while downshifting three gears approaching a tight corner & balancing the car with the throttle knowing that if you screw up you could be facing the other direction or flicking your middle finger three times and letting the computer correct your mistakes? Driving involves steering, accelerating, braking & shifting. IMO, by killing the manual transmission you've eliminated at least 25% of the experience.

It looks like manual transmissions are circling the drain, but that doesn't make it right...and certainly not better.

 

I hear ya, I'm a stick guy myself, but riding in the California was a real blast to feel(or should I say hear) those downshifts mid-corner without horror.

But I agree, I want to drive the car, not the computer. That darn computer just won on Jeopardy. That's why the most desirable super car to me is still the F40.

The point I want to drive home though is that it's not just about shifting 1/50th of a second faster or whatever, but it actually provides a driving experience that is different with pros and cons beyond just the time saved moving the clutch in and out and moving the stick.

 

recall they days (and even presently) when the stick was standard and an auto was extra?

How long before its the other way around- auto/F1 as standard and a stick for a few more bags of gold?

Im not worried about Porsche, they will just stick the stick in their "Exclusive" Offering.

 

Mid corner downshifts? Are you nuts?

Dave

 

It is disappointing, but can't say I did not see it coming. Version.1 RS for me all day.

 

I must admit when I drove the Porsche PDK I was smitten. A quantum leap forward from the awful tiptronic system.

But wife hated it. She started lecturing me on how she wanted to drive the car and not just be a passenger. She wanted to be in charge, the driver. She couldn't be passionate about driving a PDK.

So we ordered the Boxster S with a stick. We have two other stick shift cars (turbo Subarus) with 5 speeds. And then there is the 360 F1 Spider for variety.

Life is good. For now. But the days of the stick are numbered. Most youngsters cannot drive a stick. Why would you want to do that? they say. Well, how are you going to get them interested in old technology?

Can you buy a new Cayenne in a stick?

 

A new Cayenne with a stick is available for the GTS version in Europe. May not be available in USA where automatics rule for last 50 years. Blame the current crop of buyers for what is available in the future.

The Porsche GT3 is for the purists so the manual will always be offered. The Cup cars and other racers version of the GT3 will have PDK or sequential gearboxes which shifts faster so races are not lost due to machinery not being fast enough due to technology.

 

Exactly. And that is why IF Porsche ends up offering the next gen GT3 with PDK, methinks they will always have a manual option for GT series cars. My GT3 is prized for its visceral nature and if it's the last of its (manual) kind, I'll keep it forever (may do so anyway since Porsche has already confirmed that the dry sump Mezger engine will no longer be used).

 

+1

The PDK is designed for left-foot braking.

Dale

 

Very well said...I still love driving a stick shift with a proper clutch...but most of the new cars are designed to be used with F1- dual clutch trannies.. you are slowing down a high performance car would get the stick shift...t he solution is to have a more vintage car with the stick also...for Ferraris, that would be anything from a 360 and older....porsche had to go with pdk to have the car keep up with its competitors...

 

I've driven an e60 m5 in SMG and true manual, and i'd take the manual any day of the week. I would never want SMG, and it was originally designed to be with SMG only. I'd reckon I'm one of the younger Ferrari owners on this board yet i love the old technology. Ironic, or maybe some of the older folks are losing their driving abilities in their old age and don't want others to find out.